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posted on 2004-5-12 at 17:56
Yes I speak english, french fluently i also read and write in both.. well I aslo no pig latin.. but thats just an old elementry time thing haha.
and well now im working my up with spanish, im trying to find an online course right now!
PunkRawkPrincess
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posted on 2004-5-12 at 20:34
well arnt you just talented :p
spanish is a sexy language when i met enrique he was speaking spanish, and even tho i had NO IDEA what he was saying, it sounded hott
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little_lady
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posted on 2004-5-12 at 20:45
I didn't know you were trying to pick up Spanish, Marce.
That's quite interesting.
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you won't let me down...
Sin Ogaris
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posted on 2004-5-12 at 22:09
I learnt a bit of Spanish online, but I didn't have the drive to continue with it, I should learn it someday since I love the language.
RobH
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posted on 2004-5-12 at 22:46
Find me a published pig latin dictionary, and I might consider changing my stance.
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Adidas
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posted on 2004-5-12 at 23:47
I thought my point was fairly explainitory. I've never heard anyone argue against the fact that 'what makes a language is whether or not
it can be spoken and understood by whoever decides to use it'.
Provided you have no arguement against that fact, then you cannot argue that pig latin is not a language.
Also, there is no published dictionary for the African "clicking" language, I dunno the name of it. Nor is there a published dictionary
for Indian smoke signals. But those are still a form of language are they not?
[Edited on 12/5/04 by Adidas]
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RobH
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 00:42
Smoke signals are not a language. They are related to language the same way a book is. A book is not language, but a way to communicate. Anyway... I
will take your challenge and think of why Pig Latin is not a language. Either that or I will be forced to agree with you. I'll get back to you.
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RobH
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 00:58
I found these dictionary definitions of 'language':
a systematic means of communicating by the use of sounds or conventional symbols; "he taught foreign languages"; "the language
introduced is standard throughout the text"; "the speed with which a program can be executed depends on the language in which it is
written"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn
Any means of conveying or communicating ideas; specifically, human speech; the expression of ideas by the voice; sounds, expressive of thought,
articulated by the organs of the throat and mouth. [16]
www.ee.oulu.fi/research/ouspg/sage/glossary/
And here's a 'definition' of 'Pig Latin':
Pig Latin is a language game that can be created from, i.e., based on, almost any language, although it is most commonly based on the English
language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_latin
Besides the first two definitions, into which "Pig Latin" certainly fits, all languages do have many characteristics which are NOT
characteristics of "pig latin". For example, languages can be traced to a particular culture or society, whether past or present. Pig
Latin is not associated with any group, by which I mean, there is no group which actively practices, or ever has actively practiced, the speaking of
pig latin.
Pig latin is more of an algorithm to modify the English language, which could, consequently, be applied to any language in the same way. In this
respect there is nothing particularly defining about Pig Latin as a language. Note that definition, calls it a language game.
As far as the African clicking language, I don't know anything about that so I can't really say anything about it.
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RobH
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 03:10
thats funny, but you can't search words in pig lattin
How do you communicate those emotions that are so intense that no physical expression or series of words can even scratch the surface?
Adidas
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 04:02
Notice, first of all, where you gave a definition of pig latin, the first few words say "Pig Latin is a language..."
That alone should prove you wrong.
Second, The first two definitions of a language you gave both say, in different words, the exact same thing I was saying. "A means of
communicating..." If a person can speak and another person can understand "pig latin", then it is technically a language.
Also, notice you pointed out that they say that a language "can" be traced back to a culture and/or society, that doesn't mean that
a language "has" to be traced back. It is not a requirement in order to be a language.
Another point to be made. Smoke signals are no different than brail. Brail is a language just the same as english. Its the same principle with sign
language. That name alone should tell you that sign is a language.
One last thing. An algorithm is simply math. Math, as they say, is the universal "language". So...you do the math.
[Edited on 13/5/04 by Adidas]
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SideO_JR
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 04:15
umm, i don't think you read awhat he said to closely.
quotation:
Notice, first of all, where you gave a definition of pig latin, the first few words say "Pig Latin is a language..."
and lets make an example here
Bob says Jacob is the funniest guy in the room whenever no one else is ther
addidas sa: Bob said jacob is the funniest guy in the room whenever.
change the meaning.
anyone get it? o that sucks cause i donno if i am making sense god i'm hungry
[Edited on 13-5-04 by SideO_JR]
How do you communicate those emotions that are so intense that no physical expression or series of words can even scratch the surface?
jessica
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 04:26
that is super interesting rob......you have WAY too much free time on your hands! and you always have to argue everything!! although i do agree with
you....pig latin is not a language.
thelividfan
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 04:37
OH my.. this is really interesting.. I honestly never thought it would come down to a debate!! but everyone soo far has brought in some really good
points!! i mean.. its soo hard now to pick a side.. hmm perhaps i will do some extra research myself, i'll see if time allows it!
1lilrockerchic
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 13:20
im gunna learn spanish from my colombian friend (Dez you know her brother JJ). hehehehe I <3 Mimi (maria is her name but we all call her mimi
.::Lullaby::.
xX*I am sorry now (but will I ever let you go…)
Things seem so wrong (I had something worth living for)
I cant go on, but its something we’re suppose to do
My heart is crushed, now that I’m without you
I’m without you *Xx
1lilrockerchic
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 13:23
quotation:Originally posted by RobH
On the topic of pig latin, check this out:
otay otay but was very confusing i could read a bit.
Jenny I read parts of Marce's agenda that's all in french very interesting the rules they have.
.::Lullaby::.
xX*I am sorry now (but will I ever let you go…)
Things seem so wrong (I had something worth living for)
I cant go on, but its something we’re suppose to do
My heart is crushed, now that I’m without you
I’m without you *Xx
PunkRawkPrincess
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 13:58
i wanna read it!!
How did you understand it? i am soooooooo hopeless when it comes to other languages....
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Adidas
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 13:59
I still do not see how anyone can argue this after points have been made.
It is very plain to see by the points that RobH made himself:
" found these dictionary definitions of 'language':"
"a systematic means of communicating by the use of sounds or conventional symbols..."
"Any means of conveying or communicating ideas; specifically, human speech..."
By those definitions alone one can prove that Pig Latin is a language. It is pure fact that Pig Latin is a means of communicating and conveying ideas.
Reguardless if the whole world recognizes it as an "official" language or not, it is still a form of communication and therefor is a
language.
Something else to consider: Pig Latin is no more than a twist on the english languae (or for that matter the same grammitcal rule that governs Pig
Latin can be used on just about any language). But at the same time Enlgish is no more than a "spin-off" of other languages (ex. French,
Spanish, Greek, etc...). If you have no argument that English is a language, then by the same standards, you cannot argue that Pig Latin is not a
language.
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PunkRawkPrincess
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 14:07
wow me and marce really started something, go us
but ya you guys win, i am not going to look into it anymore
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Jeff K
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 15:20
I'm going to back up Rob here.
Yes, pig latin is a means of conveying ideas and information. However, Rob's point of it being an algorithm or language game still stands.
Pig latin only conveys information because it relies on information that is already inherit in the language it is bastardizing. Take this example.
Jeff: "What language are you speaking dude?"
Rob: "Igpay Atinlay"
I know Rob is speaking in Pig latin because the information that tells me that is contained in his pig lain sentence. However, the information in
Rob's given sentence is dependent upon the structure and nature of the English language.
Pig latin may communicate information and ideas, however, it only does so because it relies on the information and ideas present in other
languages.
This is the reason I believe it is not a real language.
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 15:39
Way to go JENNY! we Love YOU!
.::Lullaby::.
xX*I am sorry now (but will I ever let you go…)
Things seem so wrong (I had something worth living for)
I cant go on, but its something we’re suppose to do
My heart is crushed, now that I’m without you
I’m without you *Xx
PunkRawkPrincess
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 16:00
WHOOOT!
Go ME!
i just noticed i have ALOT of posts! hehehe
I am a Post Whore
but you and dez still beat me!
I love you tooooo!
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Chris
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 18:09
jeff - most languages take and share ideas from other languages, independance is not a prerequisite to something being classified as a
"real" language.
obviously your point about it relying heavily on the structure of the english language is correct - this is clearly how it works. thus, i consider pig
latin to be just as much a language as klingon.
ta bi
Jeff K
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posted on 2004-5-13 at 19:41
Goods points Chris. I'm still not convinced though.
Languages like French and Spanish are related, yes. This is because both are descended from common roots: latin.
Pig latin is a different case though, it relies on REARRANGING different words of a language. It has no common roots to other languages because it is
a recent invention.
well, although the topic digressed toward pig latin, I'm here to reiterate that hawaiian (w/an a) is very much a REAL language. take it from
someone who knows, and grew up taking hawaiian history lessons every week in grade school. from what sparse things i remember we were greeted by our
hawaiian teacher w/ "aloha kakai'iaka e' kamali'i?" which is something like "hello, are you well students?"
btw, don't take that to be anywhere near grammatically correct. anyway, hawaiian is a language though.
