quotation:

---

Form Message %43422% 070603
D_ID020920060806D_ID/W_ID54688242W_ID/S_ID003S_ID
Subject: GS=C31006 Your item isn't showing up in search [#UK ?01 ]
User Feedback: 61
User State: ?01
Browser Info: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Firefox/1.5.0.1
Selling and Fees > Listing and managing your listings > Your item isn't showing up in search
Message:

hi ebay folks.

my item's been "listed" for three days or so. i can see it in my ebay and if i use the url [snip - direct url to item] but if i use find item using the item number 7388412385 or do any search which might match the item name, it doesn't appear.

this is very worrying because someone might end up finding it through view seller's other items and getting it on the starting bid. the thing starts at 50p, no reserve and it's worth about £130 new.

so i'd like some way to start the auction over (with it appearing in search of course), but i shouldn't have to pay the listing fee again since it hasn't been properly listed.

please advise.

thanks a lot.

---

quotation:

---

Hello,

We have received your email and apologise for the delay in our response
to your enquiry. I will be happy to address your concerns regarding your
item not showing in searches.

The reason that you could not find your item when doing a title search
is either because special characters (e.g., *, !, /, -, @) were included
immediately before or after important words, or you unfortunately left
out a space before and after these words.

Please review the information on the "Sell your item" page before
placing your listing to help ensure that your listing is the best that
it can be. To the right of the Title box on the "Sell Your Item" Form,
you can click on 'Learn how to write a good item title.'

For more search tips, click on the 'Help' link located in the Navigation
Bar at the top of most eBay pages. From the Help 'Basics' page, scroll
down and click on the 'Searching?' link found under 'New to.'

To change the title of your listing, please follow the instructions
below:

1. On the item listing page you want to edit, look for "Revise item"
near the top part of the listing.

2. When the page has opened select continue, and then "Edit Title" this
is found near the top of the page.

Once you have clicked on this please follow the instructions provided.

I appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter.

Kind regards,

Dermot Campbell
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

hi dermot.

it is clear to me that you have not read or do not understand my message. so not only do i have to wait for the majority of the auction's length for a response, the response is useless.

i have already seen the help pages you reference. if you had a look at the item in question (which may be difficult because it does not come up in searches /at all/) you would see that the title is as follows:
boss dd-5 / dd5 / dd-5 digital delay - boxed
now, if you type
boss delay
in a search box, it should appear. it does not. what is more, if you go to one of my other items, for instance item number 7388407122, and then click "view seller's other items", my dd-5 does not appear there either.

the only way i can see it is to either go through "my ebay" and view the items i'm selling or enter
[snip - direct url to item]
in my browser's url bar.

please restart my auction at no extra charge with the item listed properly. this is a major headache because i was offering buyers a discount if they won this auction and another related auction. the buyers obviously can't see this dd-5 pedal on my "other auctions" page and so i may be losing out on bids.

-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

On 12/02/2006 I replied to the email message you sent on 09/02/2006. As part
of eBay's commitment to excellence, we want to make sure our response met your
needs. Would you please take a few minutes to answer some questions about your
overall experience and the specific eBay Representative who responded to you?


[snip - url]

To respond to our survey, please click on the web address above. If that does
not work, please cut and paste the entire web address into the address field
of your browser. NOTE: Please respond within five days so that you can provide
timely feedback to me. AFTER 5 DAYS, THIS INVITATION WILL EXPIRE.

[snip]

---

quotation:

---

Hello,

Thank you for writing to eBay's Customer Support. I undersatnd that your
item is not appearing while searching for it.

Please understand that our search engine will not be able to find any
item if there are special characters like "-", "/" in the item title.

If you want your item to appear in the search result page then you will
have to make the necessary changes in the item title.

I have looked up your item nad found that the listing for tne itme is
already ended. If you are planing to relist your item then please do not
include any special characters in your item title.

I trust that this information has been useful to you. If you have any
further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards,

Simon Shaw
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

simon -

you are no better than dermot.

once again, the title is not the problem. the item title in question is as follows:
boss dd-5 / dd5 / dd 5 digital delay - boxed
i have other items such as
boss bcb-60 pedal board / effects carrying case
listed, and these show up with no problems. you should probably learn a bit more about how the search engine works - there would be a problem if i had something like "dd-5/dd5/dd 5" - with no spaces. then a search for "dd5" would not yield my item.

you didn't do a very good job looking up my item, as there are still 2 hours 40 minutes remaining as i write this.

i am finding ebay support seriously terrible. i just wish there was a phone number i could complain to.

-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello Bart,

Thank you for writing back to us regarding your frustration at your
listing not appearing in a search. Please allow me the opportunity to
assist you further.

I apologise if previous our correspondence has not addressed your
questions and concerns. I understand how frustrating this can be, and I
hope to be able to help you resolve this issue.

My colleagues Dermot and Simon are both actually correct. The reason
that you could not find your item when doing a title search is either
because special characters (e.g., *, !, /, -, @) were included
immediately before or after important words.

It does not say that these characters will not be a problem so long as
you use spaces before or after the special characters above. Every
listing is different and in this case this one was not indexed because
of these characters. I would not advise using them in any future listing
as your items may not be indexed.

Again, thank you for your email and please don't hesitate to let us know
if you have any further questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

John Lynam
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

john -

you're wrong, and so were both of your colleauges. now i can prove that the item's title was not the problem: i have relisted the item with the exact same title and it is now appearing in searches. it's item 7391564468.

i expect the insertion fee and scheduled listing fee (totalling £0.21) to be credited back to me on my invoice. i know it's a small amount but i will not pay it, since my item was not listed properly before through no fault of my own.

-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello Bart,

Thank you for writing to eBay. My name is Douglas and I appreciate the
chance to help you with your concern about the refund of fees for your
listing.

Please be aware that, if you list an item for sale on eBay and the
transaction does not end successfully, we may refund your Final Value
Fee. However, the listing fees are non-refundable in this case.

I understand this may add to the frustration you have likely already
experienced regarding this transaction. Please understand, though, that
eBay is a business, and listing items for sale on eBay is not free.

When you list an item, you pay for use of eBay's Web site as a market
for your item, a market that reaches millions of potential buyers. All
sellers are charged a fee to list items using the eBay site, name, and
services. Listing your item on eBay does not guarantee that the item
will sell. And even if your item does not sell, you are still charged to
list the item on eBay.

A listing on eBay is like a classified ad in a newspaper. Like the
classifieds, our site acts as the venue for sellers to list items (or,
as appropriate, solicit offers to buy) and buyers to bid on items. But
like the newspaper, eBay is not involved in the actual transaction
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the
quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or
accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the
ability of buyers to buy items. However, you are responsible for paying
a fee for the services provided by eBay just as you would be responsible
for paying for a classified ad.

Again, thank you for your email and please don't hesitate to let me know
if you have any further questions or concerns.

Kind Regards,

Douglas Nokes
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

douglas:

i cannot believe this! once again support have not read my full message! my item was not listed - the time ticked down but it would not appear on any searches, or on my "seller's other items" page. i have proven that it was no fault of mine (i relisted it with the exact same item name and it then appeared on searches).

i have paid for my item to be listed, and it was not listed. i demand that it the money is refunded.

-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello Bart,

Thank you for writing to eBay's Customer Support. I appreciate the
opportunity to assist you further with the listing fees credit.

I would like to clarify that listing fees are non-refundable regardless
of whether or not the item sells. They are charged with every listing
submission and cover the cost of the features you use for your item and
the space your listing occupies while it's listed on eBay. Therefore,
the seller is still responsible for the insertion fees even in
situations where a Bidder doesn't complete the sale. However, in those
situations the Final Value Fee is refundable.

Also, in situations where you want to relist an item, the Insertion fees
will be charged again. However, if the second auction is successful you
will get those Insertion fees back.

For more information about the listing fees on eBay, please see this web
page:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/fees.htmlT

I trust that this information has been useful to you. If you have any
further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards,

Ruth Kennard
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

hi ruth.

you haven't read my message either. as i have said many times, the item was not listed properly - it would not come up in any searches, and the item title was not at fault. i have proven this. therefore (again, as i have said many times) i paid ebay for a service i did not receive, and so i want my money back.

your support service is atrocious.
-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello Bart,

Thank you for writing to eBay's Customer Support. I understand that you
are concerned about refund of insertion fee.

Please note that insertion fees are non-refundable. They are charged
with every listing submission. Therefore, the seller is still
responsible for the insertion fees even in situations where a Bidder
doesn't complete the sale. However, in those situations the final value
fee is refundable.

Insertion fees cover the cost of the features you use for your item and
the space your auction occupies while it's listed on eBay.

Also, in situations where you want to relist an item, the insertion fees
will be charged again. However, if the second auction is successful you
will get those insertion fees back.

For more information about the listing fees on eBay, please see this web
page:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sellerguide/selling-fees.html

I trust that this information has been useful to you. If you have any
further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards,

Marvin Bloggs
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

hello marvin

if you had actually taken the time to read my message (and all previous correspondance) you would know that your answer was useless and that we've been going in circles. i have now received six messages from ebay support, none of which were helpful in the slightest. the last three emails i received have been nearly identical, each as useless as the others. ebay support sends me a worthless response, each member of support staff having failed spectacularly to read my email, and then i reply pointing this out and restating the problem.

so here we go again - i'm not giving up in a hurry.

i have paid for an item to be listed on ebay. it would not come up in searches due to no fault of my own (this has been proven) and so i did not receive the service i paid for. the money i paid must be refunded.

perhaps ebay support staff are not trained to deal with customers who won't accept an automatically generated, irrelevant response, or you just don't know what to do or can't be bothered, and so just fire off the first help document that comes up in a search for "listing fee refund" in your little database of copy and paste responses. in any of these cases, and in fact even if you don't think any of these are true (since i'm frankly bored with ebay support by now), please have your supervisor or manager phone me on [my number].

thanks
-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello,

Thank you for writing to eBay regarding the credit of listing fees for
the item number: 7388412385

First of all, I would like to apologise for delay in responding to your
email.

I checked your listing and found that it ran full time on the site and
then ended. I regret, as it is outside our refund policy we will not be
able to credit the fees to you.

Please be aware that, if you list an item for sale on eBay and the
transaction does not end successfully, we may refund your Final Value
Fee. However, the listing fees are non-refundable in this case.

I understand this may add to the frustration you have likely already
experienced regarding this transaction. Please understand, though, that
eBay is a business, and listing items for sale on eBay is not free.

When you list an item, you pay for use of eBay's Web site as a market
for your item, a market that reaches millions of potential buyers. All
sellers are charged a fee to list items using the eBay site, name, and
services. Listing your item on eBay does not guarantee that the item
will sell. And even if your item does not sell, you are still charged to
list the item on eBay.

A listing on eBay is like a classified ad in a newspaper. Like the
classifieds, our site acts as the venue for sellers to list items (or,
as appropriate, solicit offers to buy) and buyers to bid on items. But
like the newspaper, eBay is not involved in the actual transaction
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the
quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or
accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the
ability of buyers to buy items. However, you are responsible for paying
a fee for the services provided by eBay just as you would be responsible
for paying for a classified ad.

I appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter.

Kind regards,

Melaine R.
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

melaine -

oh dear. it seems you're still not reading. the email you sent me was for the most part identical to the email i received on 2006-02-19 at 1206 from douglas nokes. both are useless since you still refuse to read my message.

i realise that the item ran the full seven days. i am not denying this. however, as stated in my very first email, my item did not appear in any searches. no potential buyers were able to see it and therefore it was impossible for it to sell.

on 2006-02-13 at 1625 simon shaw sent me a message saying he had looked up my item and was under the impression that it had already ended. however, it still had three hours and five minutes remaining. this proves my item was not appearing in searches - while it was still on sale it was not findable, even by the support staff. the message i am referencing is somewhere below in the correspondance history.

i have proven it was not my fault: after being assured the item title was at fault by your braindead support staff i relisted the item with the exact same name. it then appeared in searches immediately, using the exact same queries. this can be shown if you look at the items i've recently sold.

so, once again, i demand a refund as the service i paid for was not provided.

as i said in my previous email, i detest the way this issue is being addressed. perhaps it's not your fault - perhaps your training was so abysmal that all you can manage is to copy and paste the best match you can find out of your list of set responses. therefore, since you obviously don't know how to handle this, i urge you to have your supervisor or manager phone me directly on [my number] so we can settle this.

-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello Bart,

Thank you for writing to eBay's Customer Support regarding the credit of
fees for the item number: 7388412385 as it was not available in
searches.

First of all, I would like to apologise for delay in responding to your
email.

I tried to do a completed search for your listing and could locate it
easily. You can refer to the below mentioned link to view your listing:


http://search-completed.ebay.co.uk/boss-dd-5-dd5-dd-5-digital-delay-boxe
d_W0QQamp;sspagenameZhQ3ahQ3aadvsearchQ3aUkQQcatrefZC5QQfclZ3QQfisZ2QQfr
omZR7QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsacatZQ2d1QQsatitleZbo
ssQ20ddQ2d5Q20Q2fQ20dd5Q20Q2fQ20ddQ205Q20digitalQ20delayQ20Q2dQ20boxedQQ
sofocusZbs

As your listing was clearyly available in search, we will not be able to
issue a credit to you.

Please be aware that, if you list an item for sale on eBay and the
transaction does not end successfully, we may refund your Final Value
Fee. However, the listing fees are non-refundable in this case.

I understand this may add to the frustration you have likely already
experienced regarding this transaction. Please understand, though, that
eBay is a business, and listing items for sale on eBay is not free.

When you list an item, you pay for use of eBay's Web site as a market
for your item, a market that reaches millions of potential buyers. All
sellers are charged a fee to list items using the eBay site, name, and
services. Listing your item on eBay does not guarantee that the item
will sell. And even if your item does not sell, you are still charged to
list the item on eBay.

A listing on eBay is like a classified ad in a newspaper. Like the
classifieds, our site acts as the venue for sellers to list items (or,
as appropriate, solicit offers to buy) and buyers to bid on items. But
like the newspaper, eBay is not involved in the actual transaction
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the
quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or
accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the
ability of buyers to buy items. However, you are responsible for paying
a fee for the services provided by eBay just as you would be responsible
for paying for a classified ad.

Moreover, at present, we focus on providing support to our community
through the use of email and do not offer telephone customer service
support. If you would like to send us an email with any questions or
concerns that you have, we would be more than happy to assist you. You
can contact us by clicking on the link below:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/contact_us/_base/index.html

We also have an extensive "Help" section which is packed with helpful
information. It contains answers to frequently asked questions as well
as a "search Help" feature which allows you to type in your question and
obtain a list of links that contain information on the topic you are
looking for.

You can access our Help section by clicking on the link below:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/

I appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter.

Kind regards,

Melaine R.
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

melaine -

i'm afraid you're wrong. the search you have linked to uncovers only one item. the item it shows is the relisting i made (item 7391564468), which sold. it does not show item 7388412385, which had an identical name but did not show in searches.

i have already proven that it did not appear - your colleague simon shaw was unable to find it even when there were three hours and five minutes remaining.

therefore, i am owed a refund.

-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello Bart,

Thank you for writing back to us regarding your concern about refund of
your fees. Please allow me the opportunity to assist you further.

After reviewing our database, I found that you have relisted the item
(item number: 7388412385) as the item (item number: 7391564468). Please
understand that on eBay we do not refund the Insertion fees for any
original listings because eBay offers sellers a venue to sell their
items at their price. I also found that the Insertion fees for your
relisted item have been refunded on 24-Feb-06 17:32:52 GMT. You can
check your account status page and confirm the same. All other fees for
the original listing are non refundable. Here, I would also like to
explain our free relist policy:

The free relist policy allows members to relist their item if the item
had not sold first time around. If your listing ended without a winning
buyer or resulted in an Unpaid Item the first time, you may qualify for
an Insertion fee credit by relisting the item. If the item sells the
second time around, eBay will then refund the Insertion Fee for the
relisting. To relist an item, sign in to eBay, go to the item page for
the ended listing, and click on "relist your item."

General requirements for the credit:

1. You must relist the item within 90 days of the closing date of the
original listing.

2. Only the first relisting of an item is eligible. Subsequent
relistings of the same item do not qualify.

3. Both the original listing and the relisting must be in Online Auction
or Fixed Price format or Auction-with-BIN (not Store Inventory format).

4. Both the original listing and the relisting must be single-quantity
(not Multiple Item or "Dutch".

5. The starting price you set for the relisted item must not be greater
than that of the original listing.

6. The relisted item must not have a reserve price if the original
listing didn't have one. If it did, the reserve price you set for the
relisted item must not be greater than that of the original listing.

7. The relisted item must end with a winning buyer. If the item doesn't
sell the second time, the Insertion Fee is not refunded.

Tip: If your item didn't sell the first time, you may want to come up
with a different title, lower the starting price, or add a more detailed
item description.

Before relisting an item sellers are encouraged to look at the "How to
Get More Bids!" page. You can reach this page by clicking on this link:

http://cgi5.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?BetterSeller&item=0

As always, my goal is to help you with your questions as quickly and
accurately as possible. I appreciate your patience and understanding
regarding this matter and wish you continued success on eBay.

Kind regards,

Derik Ledbetter
eBay Customer Support

---

quotation:

---

please send no more prewritten responses. i have read your online help - it is not relevant. i am only interested in what you actually type each time.

derik - please put melaine back on. i felt we might have actually been getting somewhere. now you've come along and the refusal to understand me is back in full force.

so you reviewed your database and found that i had relisted the item. i had made this /absolutely/ clear. if the same member of the support staff had stayed with this support ticket from the start, and even better if you had actually read my messages, you would already know this.

i am not worried about the fees for item 7391564468, which was the relisting. i only mentioned this item because it (a) proves it was not the item's title which caused the original item not to show in searches and (b) because melaine, one of your colleagues (actually hopefully that's you), found the relisted item in a search and mistook it for the original item, which has the same name, but as i keep saying and ebay staff just keep ignoring, it did not show up in any searches.

it is *fact* that it did not appear in searches and it is *fact* that this was not the fault of the item's title (therefore simply some technical error on the ebay website - these things happen). simon shaw, one of your colleagues, was not able to find my item (item 7388412385) even when there were three hours, five minutes remaining. again, i've said all this before.

i now see, as you pointed out, that the insertion fee for the relisting has been refunded. you need to understand that the first listing, for which i paid the listing fee and a scheduled listing fee, was useless - /not just because it didn't sell/, but because it was unfindable by potential buyers, and was therefore unsellable. so i paid the sum of 21 pence for a service i did not receive. i have said this multiple times. i have been refunded the listing fee for item 7391564468 (the relisting) since "it did not sell the first time but did the second". this is nonsense - it /could not/ sell the first time - as far as potential buyers were concerned the "relisting" was the first listing. i should instead be refunded the listing fee *and* scheduled listing fee, for the /original/ item - item 7388412385.

we could sort this out a lot more quickly if you phoned me on [my number]. don't copy and paste me your prewritten drivel about how you respond to emails but don't have a phone support system - i've read it all before. but this is in fact the tenth email i have sent you on the subject of my item not appearing in searches and we don't seem to be much closer to a resolution, excepting that i've proven it was not my fault. get your act together.

-bart nagel

---

quotation:

---

Hello Bart,

Thank you for writing back to us regarding your item 7388412385 not
appearing in a search. Please allow me the opportunity to assist you
further.

I apologise if our previous correspondence has not addressed your
questions and concerns. I understand how frustrating this can be, and I
hope to be able to help you resolve this issue.

I understand that this issue so far is that your original item
7388412385 did not appear in a search but you relisted item 7391564468
of the same item did. I can see your relisted item sold so you were
credit the insertion fee on item 7391564468. I have credited your
scheduled listing fee and insertion fee for item 7388412385. You will be
able to confirm this by viewing your account status.

To view your account status please follow the steps below:
1. Log on to www.ebay.co.uk
2. Click on "My eBay". This can be found at the top of most eBay pages.
3. Enter your User ID and Password as prompted
4. Click on the link entitled "Seller Account"
5. Next, click the (View account status) link.
6. The next page will display your account status. If you wish to view a
previous invoice, select it from the drop down menu.

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Kind regards,

John Lynam
eBay Customer Support

---