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posted on 2004-1-29 at 00:46
Prove yourself wrong
I was in HMV today, being serenaded by the amazing sounds of Mer De Noms (a Perfect Circle's first album, for the uninitiated) when some clod
who worked there decided to change the CD to "The Darkness". I was so appalled I left the store on the spot. As I was walking home I began
to try and figure out what I had against "The Darkness", and why I thought they were so terrible. It is an opinion, like many opinions I
have, which I had never really considered very carefully. It sort of made me wonder what opinions other people might have that they haven't
really thought much about. ANYWAY, the point of this thread is for people to post an opinion that they have, and then to try to DISPROVE that very
opinion with some reasons or an argument. Only after we consider the both sides of an issue can we really begin to consider ourselves "not
ignorant" on the subject. I will kick it off with my argument on:
"Why the Darkness is a good band"
If you think about it, you can think of music, like any art form, on a few levels. It entertains, it expands the form as an art, and disturbs the
status quo. I know several people who really, really like "the Darkness", which means they clearly entertain. I'm sure I could find
many more if I needed to. Furthermore, they are certainly original. I have not heard anything (recently) that sounds like this band, so they are
exploring different styles of music than the standard pop/rock genre. The guy is a decent singer, too. He hits all those high notes, which is pretty
impressive. Because of all these things, I claim that "The Darkness" is a good band.
Now you guys try it. Remember, the point is that you are arguing something you DON't agree with. It doesn't have to be about music
either... anything.
Wow, this was long... sorry.
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Reivax
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 04:48
This is a good idea, by the way. It's just really hard to think of something right now. So I'll bump it before it gets lost in the heap.
RobH
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 06:38
Well, if no one else is willing to prove themselves wrong, I will prove myself wrong again. I have never understood "moral vegetarianism".
But now I will argue in its favour.
I was thinking about it today, and it sort of made sense. I mean, if some animal attacked and ate some human, we would kill because it's
"dangerous". Yet we freely kill animals for food. That is an awful double standard. The difference between humans who eat meat, and
animals who eat meat, is that as humans we understand what it means to take life. We are not simply killing by instinct for survival. We place value
on life, or at least human life. But, who are we to say that we are more important than any animal. That is rather arrogant when you think about
it.
There's two for me now. I know this is hard... but that's really the point.
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Reivax
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 08:28
It's not really necesserely that hard to do, just hard to come up with a subject.
Ok, I just thought of one.
Alot of people say that video games are causing violence and corrupting our youth. I have always been a believer that kids aren't that stupid
and they can think for themselves. But I got to thinking today as I was reading through a new magazine I just recieved in the mail and one of the
editors has a picture of him pointing to guns right at you. If you really think about it, isn't that a little bit wrong? I sat and started at
the picture thinking "Does it not phase this guy at all what he is doing?" Of course these are fake guns and an incredibly small aspect of
the point I am trying to get at. But why is it necessery to portray violence so much? Most video games are getting sicker and more twisted as the
months go by. Honestly, some of the recent games that have come out in the last few weeks make Grand Theft Auto look tame. There is a game called
"manhunt" where you basically go around and murder people in the most awful ways thinkable and kill everyone this way before they kill
you. It may not sound too bad, I suppose, but keep in mind how realistic video games are getting. Another thing that scares me about this game is that
I was actually compelled to rent it. Sure, it's okay for the average 22 year old to go out and rent this, but, of course, kids will get there
hands on this and everyone knows it.
This is just the beggining of what, I'm sure, we are in store for. Unfortunately, everyone is buying this shit and since it has become so
lucrative, everyone will slowly try and think of the new GTA ( Except Nintendo. I have faith they will stick to what they believe. Until they become
bankrupt, of course.).
Another thing that all the people in the video game industry always say is that "people are not going to go out and kill a hooker and steal the
money you just gave her". Maybe that scenario is a bit drastic, but why can't someone who loves a violent game be influenced to do
something bad to someone? It's pretty ignorant to state that every human in the world is smart enough to not copy what they see. Some people are
that stupid or just plain messed in the head.
Of course, anyone will say that certain movies are just as violent as some video games and there is nothing wrong with them. Well, does that really
take away from the fact that kids are now violently murdering people in the games they play. It still doesn't make it right.
I wonder if I just proved myself wrong there? Well, that actually was fun. Until next time...
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 13:18
i argue as if i know everything. do i? i'll be the first to concede that such is not the case. so i will put forth my best assertion as to my
thoughts on knowledge.
the way i see it, people often confuse knowledge for "smart". i can spout off random facts about any topic you throw at me, but does that
truly make me smart? i say no. if you look at it from this point of view, i hope things become a tad more clear.
"if i say something, and you listen, you now know just as much as me."
i find myself not listening when someone is speaking, but in fact just waiting for my turn to talk. this puts me at a serious disadvantage to my
listener.
by sheerly speaking, and sharing what you know, you're levelling the playing field. if you were to step into a classroom, and the teacher was
to tell you everything he knows about what you're going to learn on the first day of class, you would be in awe and think this person is
brilliant.. however, on the last day of class, if you were to take the time for retrospect, you would have to come to the realization that you now
know everything he said on that first day when you were bown away, and that it's your turn to go out into the world and put on the facade of
brilliance.
i'm notorious for trying to make a summation of points into one phrase, but everyone has their weaknesses..........
essentially, knowledge is knowing something, wisdom is knowing that you in fact know nothing.
post scriptum
there is a delicious paradox behind succesfully proving yourself wrong. seriously, think about it.
outstanding thread topic. kudos.
[Edited on 29-1-04 by mr. dobalina]
Amid the chaos of that day, when all I could hear was the thunder of gunshots, and all I could smell was the violence in the air, I look back and am
amazed that my thoughts were so clear and true, that three words went through my mind endlessly, repeating themselves like a broken record:
you're so cool, you're so cool, you're so cool. And sometimes Clarence asks me what I would have done if he had died, if that bullet
had been two inches more to the left. To this, I always smile, as if I'm not going to satisfy him with a response. But I always do. I tell him
of how I would want to die, but that the anguish and the want of death would fade like the stars at dawn, and that things would be much as they are
now. Perhaps. Except maybe I wouldn't have named our son Elvis.
3 Chambered Heart
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 13:20
just a quick thought on Reivax' posting,
You make alot of really good points, however in todays society we as people as well as the liberal media find the need to explain and lay blame for
all the wrongs being committed. i.e. columbine shootings. They found a Marilyn Mason C.D in the kids player....would this still have been made note
of if it was the Everly Brothers.....somehow I doubt it.....
So how is it justifiable to lay partial blame on a musician or on any media influence....
Sure kids see violence everywhere, on t.v. in video games, music videos, etc. but I don't believe you can lay blame for violent behaviour in
what a child sees.
i.e. A child sees all the news surrounding the columbine shootings...then picks up a gun and heads to school.....you can't tell me that the
child had not been thinking about waxing that little boy who steals his hat, he was just unsure how to go about it.... if he had not seen the news
that day....he would have found another way.......These kids are not turned into monsters with no morals by the media.....they are born with a
headfull of bad wiring....(poor analogy i know) and are simply genetically coded to create violence, whether it be from Mom or Dad or both...
I think the media can contribute to the falling of family values as it were....but they are not the root cause....i mean really.....lol sorry bout the
tirade....
I was created by Echo, but destroyed by Design
3 Chambered Heart
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 13:23
upon re reading the above posts.... i kinda realize i missed the point of this thread....to any mods reading feel free to smash both these
posts....lol
oops....sorry about that.....
I was created by Echo, but destroyed by Design
Chris
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 14:37
no!
ta bi
3 Chambered Heart
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 21:23
Boy I have a bad habit of killing threads huh.....lol sorry bout that.... everytime i post its like the thread dies....hmmmmm......wonder what that
means??? lol
I was created by Echo, but destroyed by Design
SideO_JR
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 21:27
that happens to me all the time too
i was gonna try this but i can't think of anythig to argue about
i'll do it when i think of something tho
How do you communicate those emotions that are so intense that no physical expression or series of words can even scratch the surface?
little_lady
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 22:05
"i find myself not listening when someone is speaking, but in fact just waiting for my turn to talk."
Gee thanks hun, now I really feel special hahaha...today was useless! *shakes fist* hah just kidding.
you won't let me down...
mr. dobalina
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 22:13
"Admiration is a very short-lived passion, that immediately decays upon growing familiar with its object."
so when does my allure start to dwindle?
[people in glass houses..................]
Amid the chaos of that day, when all I could hear was the thunder of gunshots, and all I could smell was the violence in the air, I look back and am
amazed that my thoughts were so clear and true, that three words went through my mind endlessly, repeating themselves like a broken record:
you're so cool, you're so cool, you're so cool. And sometimes Clarence asks me what I would have done if he had died, if that bullet
had been two inches more to the left. To this, I always smile, as if I'm not going to satisfy him with a response. But I always do. I tell him
of how I would want to die, but that the anguish and the want of death would fade like the stars at dawn, and that things would be much as they are
now. Perhaps. Except maybe I wouldn't have named our son Elvis.
little_lady
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posted on 2004-1-29 at 22:18
I think it's impossible for you to lose your charm...
OOOH! Now THERE's something to 'prove myself wrong' with. hahah juuuust teasin' ya.
you won't let me down...
RobH
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posted on 2004-1-30 at 00:43
quotation:Originally posted by 3 Chambered Heart
Boy I have a bad habit of killing threads huh.....lol sorry bout that....
No it's cool, actually. You see, part of examining your own opinions can be to show why they are actually valid. If you can't come up with
a valid argument to disprove yourself, it doesn't actually prove anything, but it makes it easier to have faith in your opinion... see?
Anyway... that's a good one Rievax, I have some stuff to say about it... but not right now. I want to hear more!
www.sluggy.com
mr. dobalina
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posted on 2004-1-30 at 02:23
this is a good thread topic. let's not spam. i'm not pointing fingers, to do so would be hypocritical. just read the first post
before you reply.
thank you, guy not in charge
[Edited on 30-1-04 by mr. dobalina]
Amid the chaos of that day, when all I could hear was the thunder of gunshots, and all I could smell was the violence in the air, I look back and am
amazed that my thoughts were so clear and true, that three words went through my mind endlessly, repeating themselves like a broken record:
you're so cool, you're so cool, you're so cool. And sometimes Clarence asks me what I would have done if he had died, if that bullet
had been two inches more to the left. To this, I always smile, as if I'm not going to satisfy him with a response. But I always do. I tell him
of how I would want to die, but that the anguish and the want of death would fade like the stars at dawn, and that things would be much as they are
now. Perhaps. Except maybe I wouldn't have named our son Elvis.
Reivax
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posted on 2004-1-30 at 02:45
Alright. I believe that smoking pot is about as safe a "drug" as there is out there. And I support the legalization of it. The ironic
thing about this is that I don't smoke it. Not at all! It gives me anxiety attacks. I can count on one hand how many times I have taken a puff
of the stuff. But I have been around it so much on the last few years, that it's normal to me. Living with 2 roomates that would smoke around 70
dollars a day was probably the most I've been around it. My brother also smokes a hell of alot and it spawned this topic when I saw his gigantic
bong sitting in the middle of our hallway.
Anyway, time to prove myself wrong. I think in a couple ways I have already proven myself wrong in the opening paragraph, actually. First, when I said
that my friends spent up to 70 dollars a day on the stuff. There are so many other waaay more intelligent ways to spend that money. For instance,
Food! Which we never had in our apartment. We lived off chips, Joe Louis and chocolate milk (CM as we dubbed it). Those 2 were alwas broke and it was
because they made sure that they spent every last penny on Weed. The whole while complaining about how malnourished they were. Clearly, this is a
problem and something that shouldn't be overseen and, of course, a small part of the waste of money that occurs. So, what I am getting at is,
basically, that when you smoke it can clearly make you neglect the things in your life that are more important ...financially, that is. And I've
seen it happen to other people, too. I've had to hear sob stories about how starving and broke people are, while at the same time they smoke
weed every day.
Potheads like to claim that weed hightens all their abilities, such as: Driving and even intelligence. I have this one friend who is convinced that he
is 10 times better at driving when he is high. Now, being the sober one who is always around when he is high, I know that he is no better at anything
when he is high..he simply just thinks he is. He thinks he is a genious debater when he smokes and really, he makes no fucking sense at all. This
stuff can really make you delusional. I think it is really just a part of making up excuses for smoking the stuff. And potheads are really good at
making excuses for why they do it. I've heard 'em all.
What I think weed does to people, in general, is make them tired, lazy and boring as hell. Unless, you have an friends wth ADD, then it does the
complete opposite. There would be times I would come home from work and my dunbass roomates would be lying on the floor, unable to move and mumbling
for me to go to the store for them. "Chris, guy...go to sev! CM!"......"CM, guy"...over and over again. It's fucking
hilarious now whenever I think about it, but at the time I wished for my friends to be sober sometimes.
Now, both these guys are "trying" to stop. Especially the one, because admittedly he says that it makes him stupid. Duh. The
difference in personalities is remarkable now that he really doesn't do it much anymore. And he knows it. :Y:
So, maybe it is the least harmful of all the addictive substances out there, but it's still addicitive and, if you aren't smart about it,
can be a gateway to other substances.
Man, that took way too fucking long. I don't care if there are a bunch of spelling mistakes beacuse I am too tired to review and fix anyway.
Fun, though!
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posted on 2004-2-3 at 22:17
I have always hated how much rap artists sample songs and just rap over top of them. Puff Daddy, Eminem..even Vanilla Ice, they are all/were getting
rich off other peoples talent. I realize it is part of the way rap always has been, but I still feel like these artists are getting too much credit
for the songs. And also, it seems as if they never seem to publicly give credit to the original composer - and in some cases completely deny that it
is a sample and claim it is an original peice of work (of course, I am sure this rarely happens, but I'm sure most of us know about vanilla
ice).
To prove how I think I am wrong is by saying a few things. Firstly, everyone is doing it. Not just rappers. Who am I to judgde. The atari's just
got famous (alot more so) for "boys of summer", orgy for "blue monday" and metallica even has an entire album of playing other
peoples songs. It's really ignorant of me to point out rappers simply because I don't enjoy or understant the music. And not just rock and
rap sample or cover, every genre of music does this.
I know very little about rap, so it's simple for me to attack it. I sit there and here puff daddy make millions from sampling led zeppelin and
get pissed right off. But from the very little bit about rap that I do know is that sampling is a part of the genre. It's the way it has been
right from the beggining. It's not so much about the music that is being played in the background, it's about the words they are rhyming.
Also, I am making it sound like all rappers do is cover and none of them have an actual gift in music. This is, of course not true. There is alot of
original music that is composed for these rappers and samples from famous songs really don't happen as often as I am making it sound.
Really, all that's left that I can say is that I simply don't know enough about this music to be able to judge it the way that I do
sometimes.
PROVING MYSELF WRONG IS OVER NOW: I really have mixed feeling about this subject. This really doesn't bother me so much, at all, but I do know
there was a time in my life where this really bothered me. Now I have mixed feelings about this subject. This is sort of a debate with my younger self
and my current self. I was reminded of it today when someone I was working with was mentioning how much puff daddy plays other peoples songs.
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posted on 2004-2-4 at 00:31
I know when "I'll be Missing you" came out I was outraged... "Every Breath You Take" was one of my all time favourite
songs, and I felt like Puffy really blew it. I actually ended up liking the song though.
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Kimbits
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posted on 2004-2-4 at 01:09
*sigh* Almost every song in rap music has another song in the background..or is a remake of an old song.
I wonder if *I* remade "I'm a Little Tea Pot" if it would rake in the dough too!
All of my life..will I believe?
mr. dobalina
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posted on 2004-2-4 at 01:15
i despise the current state of hip hop music. it is dominated by a bunch of no-talent ass clowns. stealing a 10 second hook and looping it with a
dubbed out bass line or harder snare beat isn't making music. that poor shmuck jay-z paid $3 million for the "hard knock life"
sample. Litte Annie is a rich orphan now.
however, there are certain producers in hip hop that dont sample, and matter of factly, produce a far better product.
-common
-k-os
-the roots
and as for the producers who use two second clips of hundreds of songs to make just one, such as dj premier [of gangstarr], wouldn't you think
that it's just as difficult to do that than actually play an instrument? turntable juggling is harder than alot of people think.
Amid the chaos of that day, when all I could hear was the thunder of gunshots, and all I could smell was the violence in the air, I look back and am
amazed that my thoughts were so clear and true, that three words went through my mind endlessly, repeating themselves like a broken record:
you're so cool, you're so cool, you're so cool. And sometimes Clarence asks me what I would have done if he had died, if that bullet
had been two inches more to the left. To this, I always smile, as if I'm not going to satisfy him with a response. But I always do. I tell him
of how I would want to die, but that the anguish and the want of death would fade like the stars at dawn, and that things would be much as they are
now. Perhaps. Except maybe I wouldn't have named our son Elvis.
little_lady
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posted on 2004-2-4 at 01:17
K-OS...*bows*
[bwaha whoooo wasn't at ElMocambo?] </bullying>
you won't let me down...
Kimbits
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posted on 2004-2-4 at 02:11
*clears throat*
I'm a little tea pot short and stout!
..now give me money.
All of my life..will I believe?
RobH
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posted on 2004-2-4 at 07:12
quotation:Originally posted by mr. dobalina
however, there are certain producers in hip hop that dont sample, and matter of factly, produce a far better product.
-common
-k-os
-the roots <--------
I have been listening to The Roots' latest album. They are quite creative. Definitely not the standard hip hop ensemble. I recommend them highly
to anyone interested in hearing some good original hip-hop. Classy stuff.
