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posted on 2003-11-8 at 11:29
Hmm, I'd like to respond to Bowes' post, but I don't know if people want this turned into a debate, so I won't. I like that
some people have different opinions though, makes me look into the topic further and consider my stance a bit.
tremendous
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 14:15
^That post is a waste of time.
little_lady
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 18:40
Bart! Be nice now..
I've spent the past 15 minutes reading every post on this thread over and over again..being very "analytic" of what is being
said.
I cannot congratulate all of you enough for being so right on with all these comments and opinions.
Rob, I really gotta hand it to ya...I'll never be able to come up with a thread as good as this one!
you won't let me down...
curbside_drummer
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 18:45
No I agree that music in the entertainment industry is just there to make money. There are the few artists like Remey Shand who says that he does it
for the art but then why is he on the radio. He is only there for us to make fun of him.
Like Po when we saw him at the SARS concert oh we enjoyed making fun of him there. Even the drunks and weedoholics joined in with us
l8er,
Gemms
little_lady
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 18:53
But, he's...nice....
I've talked to him I think twice now..
And, there's something about his voice and style, so hes definetly one of those artists I'd think about a little before considering
bashing them.
you won't let me down...
1lilrockerchic
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 20:22
quotation:Originally posted by little_lady
But, he's...nice....
I've talked to him I think twice now..
And, there's something about his voice and style, so hes definetly one of those artists I'd think about a little before considering
bashing them.
i have to agree with u dez but hten again i have to agree with Gem the guy gets annoying after awhile! but he has an amazing voice as well ! but
bashing these ppl can get out of hand i must admit i hate alot of these performers/artists just cause of their music.
rob great job with this topic i give 2 thumbs up too!
.::Lullaby::.
xX*I am sorry now (but will I ever let you go…)
Things seem so wrong (I had something worth living for)
I cant go on, but its something we’re suppose to do
My heart is crushed, now that I’m without you
I’m without you *Xx
mi
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 20:39
Remy Shand is actually quite the artist Gem, he sings and he plays keyboard, and he loves his music... I'll give him the credit of being good at
what he does.... even tho I cant stand it.
the act of sacraficing bitter memories
i cant bring myself to fogive you, i cant force myself to fogive you, i cant bring myself to forgive you
Xlivid
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 20:49
okay so i just have to say that yes this is a good thread but at the same time i have been reading alot of the posts and noticing that alot of them
contradict themselves.
for one: i read a post that said that they could not accept britney as an artist (i assume because the fact that she doesn't actually write the
songs or arrange them) but then says that what makes them love music is odd times and really fast solos and the way a singer delivers a line. Now at
no point did that person deal with any other aspect of music other than performance. why can't someone see that the way that Spears delivers her
vocal lines is unique to herself and that if someone else sang the songs they would sing it a totally different way???
I also read a second post that put down remi shand for saying that he didn't do it for the money. why does someone get trashed for saying he
loves what he does. yes his stuff is played on the radio does that mean that he is making that happen or rather that someone else liked it and put it
there? And would it be better if he said that he only did it for the money? would that make you like him more? or respect him more? i think that is
doubtful...
I guess i just dislike that people are often trash artists when i don't think they deserve it. What would happen if the livid got there songs on
the radio and got a record deal and started making money? They do it because they love playing music. But is it not a good thing to make some cash to
support their love?
Maybe all musicians should be like picasso. Never see a penie for their work and then only really become recodnized when they are dead. I think that
would really make the art community of this world really wanna continue captivating its audience... yeah lets do that....
And what about good charlette? I can't stand them. but they write songs that make me go insane because it sticks in my head. so it must be Art
of some form. And i don't think that it is right to devalidate someones taste just because they are young. If you are 15 and like good charlette
then good for you. When i was 15 i like greenday. I don't anymore but it didn't change the fact that i really idolized them then. it was
art. it was music and loved them.
Art is in the eyes of the beholder. So people shouldn't take that away from others by putting down what they like. Thats why its art because you
don't have to like it but it might just captivate you.
cb
[Edited on 8-11-03 by Xlivid]
Christopher Bowes
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www.64dollarproductions.com
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 20:57
Bowes makes a good point when he says "why can't someone see that the way that Spears delivers her vocal lines is unique to herself and
that if someone else sang the songs they would sing it a totally different way".
Spears' definately has a talent to make money and produce "catchy" tunes for that genre of music. It's not my type, but for
those into pop, she is probably like a god to them. Her style is what makes her the money, which brings us to Chris' opinion.
I'm unsure if she is the one actually singing the songs, as she doesn't sing live .Which would bring up the question of, if someone else
sang her songs, would it make much of a difference? She also seems to be marketed and shoved in our faces 24/7 to make big bucks. Similar to Hillary
Duff, as I'm sure her recent "empire" was not her original idea.
Did that make any sence at all? I'm trying to vent my opinion very very quickly.
[Edited on 8-11-03 by Pure_Ibanez_Sound]
one last show.
Xlivid
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 21:00
But being a maketing fool doesn't make you less of an artist. just an over exposed one
cb
Christopher Bowes
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RobH
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 22:38
Well, I am so proud of myself. I never started a topic that went more than a page before! Yay!
I think the key that many people often miss (myself very much included) is that art does not cease being art just because you don't like it...
even if the motivations of the artist are fueled by money and not the love of the art. I would personally think that art done EXCLUSIVELY for money is
a little cheap, but that also doesn't make it bad. Not everyone can pour their heart and soul into an art, but that doesn't mean they
should squander their talent, if they have it. I say again, just be open minded. How about this - I challenge everyone who reads this to go listen
to... say... the new Britney Spears album and then think of something nice to say about it, just as an experiment in open mindedness. I think it would
be interesting anyway.
www.sluggy.com
Xlivid
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 23:03
Here's a question for you...
Does Britney do what she does for the Money or do you think that she loves to perform? I would venture to say that she loves her Art.
Very few people work so hard a something unless they love it.
what do you think?
Christopher Bowes
Founder/ head of technical production
www.64dollarproductions.com
little_lady
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posted on 2003-11-8 at 23:44
Why must you make me contradict myself Chris!
Okay..i'll sorta expand on my britney idea..suuuuper quick
the fact that i cannot stand her does not mean there arent good things about her..
she is not an artist in my eyes however i do admit she's a PERFORMER..she has the skills to deliver what the people want .
She uses her dance moves, million dollar smile and sex appeal to get to places, thats fine.
she cannot sing in my opinion....so she does playback most of the time..
Yes, she's an entretainer...but definetly not someone that I believe has superb talent
you won't let me down...
mi
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 00:04
quotation:Originally posted by little_lady
She uses her dance moves
They arent her dance moves hun.... she is taught by a choreographer....
so then is she an artist? she doesnt sing her songs live, she doesnt have her own dance moves, she doesnt write her music, and she probably uses a lot
of production and computer enhancement on her recordings. However she must have at one point, ie. the mickey mouse club.... im not sure if she still
counts as an artist based on the above.... Dez may be right in calling her an entertainer...
the act of sacraficing bitter memories
i cant bring myself to fogive you, i cant force myself to fogive you, i cant bring myself to forgive you
RobH
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 00:31
Aren't entertainers artists too?
www.sluggy.com
little_lady
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 01:02
That's right...the dance moves are not hers..
Nor are her boobies
you won't let me down...
belated
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 01:34
Arg, some of the stuff in this thread is rubbish, but there are a lot of great points raised, and a lot to which i agree with. I just wanna say a
couple things so i don't bore you. Brittney spears is rubbish. She's nice to look @, but that's about it. True artists are very rare
these days. I'm talking about a person/group who does it solely for the music, and builds a fan base based upon that foundation. Tool - perfect
example of this. In 13 years they haven't sold out. In the opposite direction you got Korn - one "underground" album then sellouts,
same with Limpbizkit.
So as to the question @ hand, i believe in some music as true art, but my god there is an awefull amount of shit out there. We can only hope that the
art will outweigh the shit.
Edit: Just a thought that came to me, it seems that with what i was talking about before ("underground" -> commercial) the quality of
music declines exponentially eg. Korn - Korn (self titled) -> Korn - Life is peachy
typos
[Edited on 9-11-03 by belated]
[Edited on 9-11-03 by belated]
[Edited on 9-11-03 by belated]
Xlivid
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 01:46
is a bad drummer not a drummer just the same???
so then isn't a bad Artist still an artist???
(and dancing, whether your own moves or not, is still an art)
Christopher Bowes
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www.64dollarproductions.com
1lilrockerchic
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 02:00
ok with britney she lip syncs n i swear to god nothing she does is real ok i like some fast song i must admit like Lee(thank Deedee!) but brtney
really has no place! shes back in the news b/c of her kiss with madonna n thats basically all! but really i dont consider entertainers as artists
because well britney is an entertainer but she is phony!
^
* THIS IS MY OPINON *
so if you have a problem i dont care you can say whatever you want about it!
.::Lullaby::.
xX*I am sorry now (but will I ever let you go…)
Things seem so wrong (I had something worth living for)
I cant go on, but its something we’re suppose to do
My heart is crushed, now that I’m without you
I’m without you *Xx
belated
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 02:03
that's kinda a hollow argument rockerchic, because to some people Eminem is phony, but really is both an artist and n entertainer, and
it's suprising his name hasen't come up in this thread yet. Can't remember where i was going... sorry
[Edited on 9-11-03 by belated]
1lilrockerchic
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 02:07
YEA well im really stressed out cause my mom isnt home n she left @ like 6 pm 3 hrs ago but well yea ok my life is really shitty rite now! n im really
worried! so i prolly make no sense!
but as far as em goes he is talented and i listen to him all the time he is one artist who cheers me up when im feelin real low!
[Edited on 9-11-03 by 1lilrockerchic]
.::Lullaby::.
xX*I am sorry now (but will I ever let you go…)
Things seem so wrong (I had something worth living for)
I cant go on, but its something we’re suppose to do
My heart is crushed, now that I’m without you
I’m without you *Xx
SideO_JR
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 02:15
I noticed a few of you mentioning that some people do it just for the money and some do it cause they love music. Why would you make music or sing it
or do whatever it is you do if you don't love it. It takes so much time and effort that only the love of the art can keep the motivation. With
Britney Spears...I believe she is still an artist because she has to really feel what she sings, otherwhise it wouldn't be sincere and people
would not like it as much.
[Edited on 9-11-03 by SideO_JR]
How do you communicate those emotions that are so intense that no physical expression or series of words can even scratch the surface?
RobH
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 04:31
quotation:Originally posted by SideO_JR
I noticed a few of you mentioning that some people do it just for the money and some do it cause they love music. Why would you make music or sing it
or do whatever it is you do if you don't love it.
[Edited on 9-11-03 by SideO_JR]
Why would someone work a 9-5 office job they hate for 35 years? It's a job.
Some people have been throwing around the label of "sellout". What do you even mean by that? Are you saying commercial success = sellout?
It just seems to me that you are saying "selling out" as a bad thing. What is so bad about commercial success? A band has to make money to
keep playing, right? Don't you want to see a band's hard work rewarded? Why is it so hard to believe that bands' styles can change
from album to album as they evolve as musicians without branding them as sellouts? The word "sellout" is bullshit. If hypothetically, some
artist made a conscious decision to stop making music that he or she liked, and instead to make music that would please the masses strictly for
financial gain, maybe they should be labelled as a sellout... But then again, I have no way to know what the motivation of the artist is. How
could I? Without that knowledge it is ridiculous, and maybe even a little ignorant to call anyone a sellout.
[Edited on 9-11-03 by RobH]
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Reivax
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 04:45
Xlivid, I just want to say that I think alot of people on hear, including myself, are contradicting themselves because this thread is really actually
making people think and change their views on some of the things said.
All this Britney Spears bashing I think is a bit uneeded and getting a little off topic. But to answer the questions asked, I believe that Britney
truly loves to perform and the money is a great bonus. Like Xlivid said no one would go through so much just for money. I'm pretty sure that
girl has enough money to retire on. I think people forget or simply don't realize the struggles of being an entertainer. I truthfully would
rather work at Tim Hortons than be in Britney Spears or any over exposed entertainers shoes. Think about what it did to Kurt Cobain? But do these
points really matter? What I do believe now is that anything out there is some form of art. And that's the bottom line. I mean, we can discuss
who's a better artist, but that is mostly a persons personal view. You don't have to agree, but there is no reason to say it isn't
art. Or else we're just going to get into one of those, gonowhere, yes-no, debates.
I can also understand why people are getting a bit defensive because the idea of comparing someone you truly dislike to someone you love is a total
insult to the one you love. But you got to understand you can compare Adolf Hitler and Nelson Mandela. But how can I put someone so horrible into a
category with someone so great. They were/are both leaders, right? Of fucking course. I know I sound retarded and I'm sure you could see where I
was going with that from the first second, but it seemed like a decent comparison to our subject.
I'm trying to find something else to respond to on this topic, but I can't see anything right now...
Reivax
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posted on 2003-11-9 at 05:12
RobH, right when I started to read your last post, I knew exactly what to say..but you already said it. And I'm pretty sure you've at some
point thought of what I'm about to type: It's a simple fact that people are posessive and don't like change. We don't want
what we love to change, if it changes it's not the same anymore. And humans are built to think because they found it first it's
there's...finders keepers.
I also think people get upset when a band goes all "hollywood" and buys alot of shit gets pimped up and so on. Fucking sellouts...but what
would you do if you ran into alot of money? You would buy alot of shit, wouldn't you? Of course you would. I would. I realize it's an
admirable thing when a band doesn't do this (tool) and stays down to earth but it really doesn't make the bands/people that do any worse
or better, it just means that they are different. NOT SELLOUTS.
Shit..I know I had something else to say...but I can't remember for the life of me. Maybe later.
