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posted on 2003-9-28 at 23:42
Cobain's "Suicide"
Hey guys, this might be a bit disturbing as Mr. Cobain was probably close to each and everyone of us. So I'll warn you now, this is talking
about how he was possibly murdered and how he didn't commit suicide. So, now that you've decided to continue.. I'll begin. I'm
not taking credit for this, as it is an amazing article written by Eric Leventhal.
There are many answers that need to be revealed if Cobain's death is to truly be ruled a suicide.For example, why were no legible fingerprints
found on the shotgun used to kill Cobain? Who was using Cobain's credit card two weeks after his death? And why were there two sets of
handwriting on the so-called suicide note?
When Cobain was first reported missing, Love hired Tom Grant, a private investigator, to find Cobain while she was away with Hole on tour. Later,
after Grant's investigation was completed, he actually decided that Cobain was "most likely" murdered. However, since he was in no
way affiliated with the police, his investigation was deemed unimportant.
One thing that Grant discovered was that the leader of the punk band The Mentors, El Duce, whose real name is Eldon Hoke, claimed that Love offered
him 50,000 dollars to kill "[her] husband." Though many would dismiss this as false due to Hoke's reputation as a lavishly
embarrassing rock star, there's a witness.Karush Sepedjian, who manages the record store where Hoke was working when approached by Love, claims
to have heard the conversation. Sepedjian described the conversation on camera in the documentary Kurt and Courtney. "She said to him,
'Look, can you handle this, can you get this done? What do you want for it?' They were talking about Kurt Cobain!"
To prove the two were telling the truth, Grant paid for each to undergo a lie detector test by Dr. Edward Gelb, considered the top polygraph examiner
in the US. According to Gelb, when Hoke was asked the question, "Did Courtney Love ask you to kill Kurt Cobain?," Hoke's positive
response showed a 99.91 percent certainty that he was telling the truth. Quite mysteriously, however, after Hoke gave an interview with Nick
Broomfield for the aforementioned subject documentary Kurt and Courtney, Hoke was run over by a train just after being seen by friends with an unknown
man. His death was ruled an "accident."
Another item that Grant discovered is not so much the proof of a possible murder but more the discrediting of the suicide theory. Though Love later
claimed otherwise, most reports have shown that Cobain never once attempted suicide or even toyed with the idea. Quite on the contrary, in an
interview for Rolling Stone, Love claimed that while the two were staying at a hospital during the birth of their child, she had to convince Cobain
not to commit suicide, "for the child." However, several reports, including those of hospital workers and even Love's father claimed
that Cobain was never suicidal and that, in fact, Love was "most likely lying." Another item that Grant learned of while investigating the
case that disproves the suicide theory is the "second set of handwriting on the so-called suicide note." The note was looked at by three
different esteemed handwriting experts, each of which report a change in handwriting in the last four lines of the note.After Cobain signs the note
with the words, "peace, love, empathy, Kurt Cobain," there is a space after which he writes, in what these handwriting experts call a
different style, "Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your altar." Then, in an entirely different size and style of handwriting than
the first come the words "Please keep going Courtney, for Frances, For her life which will be so much happier without me, I love you, I love
you."
I'll continue in another post.
one last show.
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
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posted on 2003-9-28 at 23:45
In addition to this alarming evidence, Grant notes that before the second handwriting begins, the note reads more like a "retirement slip"
than a suicide note. Not once in the beginning does Cobain mention the word suicide. This is probably due to, according to Grant, the much-publicized
rumor that Kurt was planning on divorcing Courtney and retiring from the music industry. Love denies that Cobain was planning to divorce her, and, in
a Rolling Stone article, states that the two "had a perfect marriage. PERIOD."
Another important thing that Grant discovered was that Cobain wouldn't have even had the ability to pull the shotgun's trigger. According
to the official autopsy report, the level of heroin in Cobain's blood was three times the fatal limit for someone of his stature. Several
esteemed doctors have testified that a person with that high a level of heroin would "not have even been able to stand up, let alone pull a
trigger on a shotgun." This is yet another in the long line of theories that suggest another person was involved in Cobain's death.(Me: Or
even aim the gun)
Lastly, another important part of this case is the mysterious role played by Hank Harrison, Courtney Love's biological father. Harrison,
somewhat famous himself for having written two in-depth early Grateful Dead biographies, has claimed publicly that he believes his daughter was at
least somewhat involved in the killing of Kurt Cobain, his son-in-law. "If Courtney didn't kill Kurt physically, then she drove him to
suicide emotionally," he said in an interview for Geraldo Rivera in early 1995. It is this idea, the idea that Love's own father believes
she had something to do with her husband's murder, in addition to the many other suspicious clues, that drove Tom Grant to devote as much time
as possible to solving the case.
He began a crusade to get it reopened by the Seattle Police Department, but he failed. To this day, the case has still yet to be reopened, or at the
least reviewed by the department. Love, though she was actually the person who hired Grant, has several times attempted to have Grant lose his
license. However, so far, she's been unsuccessful. For the fans, they're left to wonder what could have been. Some find solace in some of
Kurt's lyrics. Dumb, a Nirvana song, is a song that helps many go on, "The sun is gone, but I have a light, The day is done, but I'm
having fun, I think I'm dumb, Or maybe just happy, Think I'm just happy." Meanwhile, the conspiracies continue, and the theories
become abundant, but in the end, for Tom Grant, and others associated with Cobain's death, all that's important is the truth.
Amazing article, ehh? After reading that, I'm leaning more towards the murder. What a terrible loss though.
one last show.
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
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posted on 2003-9-28 at 23:53
To follow:
one last show.
mi
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 00:06
Nirvana was great, Kurt Cobain was awsome.... his death is confusing.... it is most definitely something that makes me go
"hhhhmmmmmmm......."
the act of sacraficing bitter memories
i cant bring myself to fogive you, i cant force myself to fogive you, i cant bring myself to forgive you
little_lady
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 01:00
Yeah!
It definetly falls into the "Things that make you say 'hmm' " category....
A terrible loss though...he was one wicked man.
you won't let me down...
mi
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 01:09
he was... pretty inspiring... his songs are amazing and can bring so many people together.... i got to know this guy in my guitar class because i
recognized a nirvana song he was playing... and since then we've started this little teach each other songs circle... its wicked.... anyways he
was and amazing guy.... juss so damn amazing.... such a loss...
the act of sacraficing bitter memories
i cant bring myself to fogive you, i cant force myself to fogive you, i cant bring myself to forgive you
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 02:01
No one read the article?
one last show.
mi
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 02:32
i read the article and i also listened to the episode of the ongoing history of new music.... around the day of Cobain's death.... its a strange
sort of controversy that hasn't been resolved... personally i kinda think she (Love) killed him.... there are many things that point to her, but
nothing is really certain enough to convict her or anyone else for the murder...
the act of sacraficing bitter memories
i cant bring myself to fogive you, i cant force myself to fogive you, i cant bring myself to forgive you
theo
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 12:23
who's cobain?
ta bi
Sin Ogaris
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 14:28
Does it really matter? I mean seriously, in the grand scheme of things is knowing what happened to Kurt Cobain going to make YOUR life any better? I
don't think so.
belated
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 17:06
same sorta deal with tupac's death, was he killed by some gang member, did suge kill him? yadda yadda yadda
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 20:10
quotation:Originally posted by Sin Ogaris
Does it really matter? I mean seriously, in the grand scheme of things is knowing what happened to Kurt Cobain going to make YOUR life any better? I
don't think so.
Actually it would. Just knowing how he died, or rather 'the truth' would make alot of ppl feel better.
one last show.
Hyde
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posted on 2003-9-29 at 20:39
What's bright red and has more brains that Kurt Cobain?
The wall behind him.
Jeff K
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posted on 2003-9-30 at 12:35
Nirvana was a key band in the history of music. Personally I was never a huge fan, although I do enjoy their music. It's terrible when anyone
dies and especially someone with a considerable talent. Lets face it, Kurt wasn't the greatest guitarist but he influenced a generation.
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posted on 2003-9-30 at 22:30
Lol good one Hyde! For that time, (mid 90's) he was a good guitarist, and I can remember Teen Spirit being a huge hit. But he was #11 or
something like that on Rolling Stone's top 100 guitarists. Just to show u how bogus this list was, the White Stripes guy was 17 or something
like that and Ac/Dc's main guy was 98. Just if your curious, Hendrix was #1... Which is a bit of a no brainer.
one last show.
Sin Ogaris
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posted on 2003-10-1 at 01:20
Hmmm, it would seem that Rolling Stones doesn't have any idea about musical talent. Strangely that doesn't surprise me in the least.
3 Chambered Heart
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posted on 2003-10-1 at 18:01
It distesses me that someone would consider Kurt Cobain a talented Guitarist,
cause he wasn't. Not by a long shot, now don't misunderstand me Kurt Cobain and Nirvana were and are still one of the most influential and
gifted bands of their time and of all time, but it wasn't Cobains 4 chord riffs that got them there...it was their drive to be different than
everybody else and that is what made Nirvana at least in one fans humble opinion
(on a side note - I hope some moving company drops a Grand Piano from a high rise building on the white stripes touring van.....I am sorry they just
bother me.....)
I was created by Echo, but destroyed by Design
theo
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posted on 2003-10-1 at 19:08
yeah and if anyone says that the White Stripes drummer is #11 on Rolling Stone's top 100 guitarists, someone's gonna pay big time!
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posted on 2003-10-1 at 19:47
Actually she was #2... J/K, but how much would that suck though? Give up? That would suck alot.
one last show.
Jake
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posted on 2003-10-9 at 21:28
quotation:Originally posted by Chris
who's cobain?
Kurt Cobain, front man for Nirvana.
Female.
Chris
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posted on 2003-10-10 at 16:39
quotation:Originally posted by Jake
quotation:Originally posted by Chris
who's cobain?
Kurt Cobain, front man for Nirvana.
ta bi
Sin Ogaris
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posted on 2003-10-11 at 02:27
I gotta say that's one of the funniest pics I've ever seen. And although I hate to sayit, it's so damn appropriate.
Jake
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posted on 2003-10-11 at 21:49
quotation:Originally posted by Chris
quotation:Originally posted by Jake
quotation:Originally posted by Chris
who's cobain?
Kurt Cobain, front man for Nirvana.
woot! a pencil!
Female.
Melos Modos Stain Limit
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posted on 2003-10-13 at 06:31
quotation:Originally posted by Pure_Ibanez_Sound
Lol good one Hyde! For that time, (mid 90's) he was a good guitarist, and I can remember Teen Spirit being a huge hit. But he was #11 or
something like that on Rolling Stone's top 100 guitarists. Just to show u how bogus this list was, the White Stripes guy was 17 or something
like that and Ac/Dc's main guy was 98. Just if your curious, Hendrix was #1... Which is a bit of a no brainer.
It's true that lately The White Stripe's have become a tad bit lazy with their guitar work. The songs themselves are still amazing, but
Jack seems to have gotten lazy.
The fact of the matter is that if you listen past the singles of the White Stripes to other work that Jack has done, you'll see why he made it
there. I'm not too against their list, anyone that recognizes Hendrix as number one and Clapton as number three seems to have their shit
together.
Not to mention that Angus Young doesn't even deserve to look at the list of top guitarists of all time, let alone be on it.
