Posts: 813
Registered: 2003-5-21 Location: Bdot Member is offline
Currently listening to: Westpoint
posted on 2004-3-12 at 23:37
Sellout = Bullshit
I guess most people are familiar with the term "sellout", but I'm sort of curious what people think it means. I hear this word used
in all sort of ridiculous contexts. If I was too give a definition of this word, it would probably be something along the lines of: "An artist
who sacrifices his or her own artistic integrity for the sake of financial gains." I think this is a pretty damn good definition, and generally
what people mean when they say the word. Using this definition, however, is it even possible to call anyone a sellout? I just don't get all the
people who call artists sellouts because they create different styles of art than when they first started. It's called evolution or maturation,
and it's a sign of become better at one's craft and not necessarily "selling out." I am not saying that there are no artists
who fit into that category, but I don't know who they are. I sure as hell can't read their minds, and I believe that you are foolish and
ignorant if you think you can.
That's my rant... any thoughts?
www.sluggy.com
Eric
Senior Member
Posts: 426
Registered: 2004-3-5 Location: Mississauga Member is offline
Currently listening to: Owen
posted on 2004-3-12 at 23:53
Yea man i agree with you totally like its tru sometimes it can piss me off when the bands ive liked for so long all of the sudden get popular but i
meen if i like them so much then them becoming more popular shouldnt change my opinion on them. I think like what if i was in their position. For
example yellowcard or brand new. Theyre getting big all of the sudden but i still love those two bands. But if a band changes their sound obviously
ppl are gonna either like the change or dislike it. Those are just my thoughts.
Posts: 813
Registered: 2003-5-21 Location: Bdot Member is offline
Currently listening to: Westpoint
posted on 2004-3-12 at 23:57
People are certainly entitled to like or dislike a change in musical style of any band. But to say something like, "I don't like their new
sound, so they are sellouts" is bullshit, since that implies that there is something inherantly wrong with the band and not that the person in
question simply doesn't like the music. A big difference.
www.sluggy.com
Eric
Senior Member
Posts: 426
Registered: 2004-3-5 Location: Mississauga Member is offline
Currently listening to: Owen
posted on 2004-3-12 at 23:59
I never said that meant they were calling them a sellout im just saying ppl will like the changes some ppl wont but i totally agree with you on the
sellout thought.
Posts: 2324
Registered: 2003-8-25 Location: Alberta...... Member is offline
Currently listening to:
posted on 2004-3-13 at 00:28
I hate when people say bands have sold out just because they have become popular. That is bullshit.
I believe we have discussed this before rob
How do you communicate those emotions that are so intense that no physical expression or series of words can even scratch the surface?
Adidas
Senior Member
Posts: 407
Registered: 2003-4-20 Location: Arkansas Member is offline
Currently listening to: A Change Of Pace
posted on 2004-3-13 at 04:04
read all of this before you jump to conclusions about my example of a "sellout"
I don't know if any or many of you are familiar with Evanescence. I'm sure you all have heard them or atleast heard of them. Although I
don't know how much you do know about them. They come from my home town of Little Rock, Arkansas. I've been to their shows before they
became famous and have had the oportunity to speak with them and such. Before they got their record deal, alot of their music had alot of christian
influence and messages. Although it was always unclear whether Evanescence was a "Christian" band or just a "possative" band
(apparently there is a big difference). Either way there was definately christian influence that was obvious in their music. They played at churches
when they were still just a local band from Little Rock. Amy and Ben first met at a Christian Church Camp, so its obvious that they atleast had some
kind of christian background.
Anyway, where I'm getting with this is...you may or may not know that Evanescence has straight up claimed they are not a christian band nor of
christian influence. They've even gone as far as to say things to the effect of "f#ck christianity" and such.
That would be a prime example of what I would call a "sellout". A band who throws out everything they are and believe in just to become a
famous band and make money.
[Edited on 13/3/04 by Adidas]
[Edited on 13/3/04 by Adidas]
"What are you doing?" >.>
armour_guitarist
Oh Dear
Posts: 3261
Registered: 2003-9-10 Location: Brooklyn Member is offline
Currently listening to: New Livid?!? Wha??????
posted on 2004-3-13 at 05:53
yeah, i really liked them before they started to show up on mtv... not that im saying they are a sellout, i just dont appreciate them very much
anymore.
good example Adidas... and i do agree with what you guys said rob, eric and Jorge...
Some things take more than a lifetime.
SideO_JR
Oh Dear
Posts: 2324
Registered: 2003-8-25 Location: Alberta...... Member is offline
Currently listening to:
posted on 2004-3-13 at 06:51
they are obviously still influenced tho, look at the lyrics to their songs. I think that is why Ben left, because Amy just wanted to be rich and
famous and do what would make her exactly that. (assumption )
How do you communicate those emotions that are so intense that no physical expression or series of words can even scratch the surface?
Sin Ogaris
Über Poster
Posts: 1557
Registered: 2003-5-13 Location: Australia Member is offline
Currently listening to: Coheed and Cambria
posted on 2004-3-13 at 07:06
I actually think that a lot of Evanescence's songs have very religious meanings to them (on Fallen that is, dunno about past stuff), can't
say I agree with those meaning's but I can recognise they're there. Anyway, a prime example of a band which can't really be called a
sellout (yet people still do) is Kiss. They flat out say they want chicks and money and will try anything to get that, and they've changed a lot
over the years but ended up going back to their roots for one final bash.
As for "selling out" that's just a stupid notion, bands/musicians are making music as a profession, sure it entertains us, but
it's still their job, and jobs are supposed to earn you money. Small businesses try different approaches if people aren't buying their
products, so how is it any different that a band change their style to try and appease the people that buy their albums. A prime example of what not
to do is St Anger though *shudders*, this wasn't selling out or anything stupid like that, I simply put that album down as laziness on the part
of the musicians when it's blindingly obvious they're capable of better.
[Edited on 13-3-04 by Sin Ogaris]
Adidas
Senior Member
Posts: 407
Registered: 2003-4-20 Location: Arkansas Member is offline
Currently listening to: A Change Of Pace
posted on 2004-3-13 at 16:18
St. Anger LOL I still haven't listened to that album yet because everyone in the entire world I've talked to says it sucks and I
shouldn't waste my time.
"What are you doing?" >.>
tremendous
Administrator
Posts: 2366
Registered: 2003-4-15 Location: Vancouver, BC Member is offline
Currently listening to: Cigar Box Melody EP
posted on 2004-3-13 at 16:22
i quite like it. once you get over the annoying snare drum sound, it's a good metal album. not great but good.
Adidas
Senior Member
Posts: 407
Registered: 2003-4-20 Location: Arkansas Member is offline
Currently listening to: A Change Of Pace
posted on 2004-3-13 at 18:45
A guy I used to work with a couple of years ago is a cousin of Rocky from Evanescence (or so he says and I tend to believe him from all the stuff
he's told me about the band months before the general public knew). Supposedly Ben is bi-polar or something (this sounds kinda farfetched to me
but who knows...I've never known this guy to lie before). From what I understand Ben forgot to take his meds and just kinda flipped and droped
from the tour and ended up leaving the band. Also from what I've been told, Ben was not that great of a guitarist. The song Tourniquet was
originaly another Little Rock band's song. I forget who but I've heard the original song before (I like Evanescence's version better
though, I don't care much for ALL screaming ALL the time stuff). The original song had a solo in it that, to me, didn't sound all that
difficult (I've been playing guitar for 6ish years, I don't consider myself great but I think I'm alot better than your average
guitar player although still not quite up to Chris S. standards but I'm working on it) and Ben couldn't play the solo. He practiced it
like crazy and couldn't get it so they took it out. I think its because of Ben actually not being all that good that Amy says great things about
the new guitarist and makes him sound tons better than Ben ever was.
Most, if not all, of the songs from the Fallen album were writen before they were signed on Wind-Up. Thats why the songs still have that
"christian" influence. Some of the songs are just revisions of songs from the Origin album. You can't buy Origin in any stores
becuase part of the contract with Wind-Up was that since Origin was not writen under Wind-Up that it can't be sold (I guess cause Wind-Up
can't get money off of it since they have no part in it). I've heard rumor that it can still be found in a small store here in Little Rock
but I haven't been there to confirm it.
"What are you doing?" >.>
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
Oh Dear
Posts: 2544
Registered: 2003-5-25 Location: Missisauga, ON Member is offline
Currently listening to: Angels and Airwaves- The Adventure
posted on 2004-3-13 at 21:03
Adidas brings up a good point. Let's use The Livid as an example.
Un-signed, The Livid are producing awesome, well rounded music. They've created almost a whole new genre of music where everything in the band
is good. I.E- Vocals, guitar/bass work and awesome drumming.
If the Livid were to sell out if they got signed, they might switch to 4chord guitar work and weak vocals. I.E-Good Charolette.
Selling out- Changing your original style of music to fit in with the preferred media, for self profit.
one last show.
Reivax
Custon Status
Posts: 2703
Registered: 2003-7-26 Location: Burlington, ON Member is offline
Currently listening to: Dredg & God Is An Astronaut
posted on 2004-3-13 at 22:26
Personally, I will never use that term, because I just do not know these people. There is no real way of knowing someones motivation for a change. If
someone officially came out and admitted to changing their style and sound for financial gain, then I suppose they are sellouts. Then, and only then,
will I say that. And we all know an artist isn't going to do that.
I have always hated this word, and the ignorant people that use it too much. I hear the word used the most when a fan is pissed off about a change in
the music. There is no way of changing these peoples opinions, though. They are so dedicated to the music most of the time, it's like they are
in a relationship with the band and if the music changes it's like they're cheating on the them. It's just the way it is.
Bah...I had alot more to say, but I'm drawing a blank and I don't want to stare at the screen anymore.
And the god damn snare on St. Anger is the probably the number 1 reason I don't enjoy the album. What in the hell was Lars thinking?
Posts: 813
Registered: 2003-5-21 Location: Bdot Member is offline
Currently listening to: Westpoint
posted on 2004-3-14 at 01:03
quotation:Originally posted by Pure_Ibanez_Sound
If the Livid were to sell out if they got signed, they might switch to 4chord guitar work and weak vocals. I.E-Good Charolette.
That doesn't make any sense. Which band makes their vocals of a lesser quality to make more money? It's when the quality increases that it
becomes more marketable, and then people use the sellout label.
www.sluggy.com
Jeff K
Posting Machine
Posts: 823
Registered: 2003-5-9 Member is offline
Currently listening to: Head Automatica
posted on 2004-3-14 at 01:26
"I met a boy wearing vans 501s and a dope beasty tee, nipple rings, new tattoos that claimed that he was OGT back in '92 bought our first
EP. And in between sips of Coke, he told me that he thought we were selling out, laying down, sucking up to the man. Well now I've got some
advice for you little buddy. Before you point your finger you should know that I'm the man. I'm the man and your the man and he's
the man as well so you can point that fucking finger up your ass.
All you know about me's what I sold ya. Dumb Fuck. I sold out long before you ever even heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record
dipshit and you bought one. I've got some advice for you little buddy. Before you point your finger you should know that I'm the fuckin
man and your the fuckin man as well so you can point that fuckin finger up your ass.
All you know about me's what I sold ya. Dumb Fuck. I sold out long before you ever even heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record
dipshit and you bought one.
All you read and wear or see and hear on TV is a product beggin' for your fatass, dirty dollar.
Shut up and Buy, buy, buy my new record. Buy, buy, buy. Send more money. Fuck you buddy, fuck you buddy. fuck you buddy, fuck you buddy.
Posts: 5004
Registered: 2003-5-13 Location: 'Sauga Member is offline
Currently listening to: circuit!
posted on 2004-3-14 at 01:36
'Hooker with a Penis' *giggles*
Sorry...those lyrics though are just so right on it's not even funny.
This whole thread makes me think...a lot. 'Sellout' is a pretty strong word, and it's taken in different ways by different people,
however..I don't think it's the bands decision most of the time.
you won't let me down...
Adidas
Senior Member
Posts: 407
Registered: 2003-4-20 Location: Arkansas Member is offline
Currently listening to: A Change Of Pace
posted on 2004-3-14 at 02:44
*ponders* >.>
"What are you doing?" >.>
little_lady
Not quite as sad as the post count would suggest
Posts: 5004
Registered: 2003-5-13 Location: 'Sauga Member is offline
Currently listening to: circuit!
posted on 2004-3-14 at 02:51
Don't do that! *closes eyes*
That's it..I'm never reading anything you say again,Adidas hah.
>.>
SideO_JR
Oh Dear
Posts: 2324
Registered: 2003-8-25 Location: Alberta...... Member is offline
Currently listening to:
posted on 2004-3-14 at 04:40
what is that from jeff?
How do you communicate those emotions that are so intense that no physical expression or series of words can even scratch the surface?
Adidas
Senior Member
Posts: 407
Registered: 2003-4-20 Location: Arkansas Member is offline
Currently listening to: A Change Of Pace
posted on 2004-3-14 at 05:18
*moves to one side* "yeah yeah"
"What are you doing?" >.>
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
Oh Dear
Posts: 2544
Registered: 2003-5-25 Location: Missisauga, ON Member is offline
Currently listening to: Angels and Airwaves- The Adventure
Posts: 1557
Registered: 2003-5-13 Location: Australia Member is offline
Currently listening to: Coheed and Cambria
posted on 2004-3-14 at 06:12
quotation:Originally posted by tremendous
i quite like it. once you get over the annoying snare drum sound, it's a good metal album. not great but good.
I'm sure it would be great, had it been Metallica's first album, but as it stands they fucked up big time. But hey, to each his own.
little_lady
Not quite as sad as the post count would suggest
Posts: 5004
Registered: 2003-5-13 Location: 'Sauga Member is offline
Currently listening to: circuit!
posted on 2004-3-14 at 07:13
"Yeah Yeah" should be the number one hit worldwide.
