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posted on 2004-6-4 at 01:45
George Bush
I know that a lot of people here are against him. I don't like a lot of the shit that he has done but I know he's a better President then
John Kerry would ever be. I'm wondering though why a lot of Canadian's can't stand him. If it's the war in Iraq then I
can't see why any of u would be pissed over Bush's decision to send troops over there. I don't see why it would have any affect on
u. I'm sure that he didn't care to save the Iraqi people. He did in the process though. The fact that the people in Iraq no longer have to
suffer with Saddam in power is a good enough reason to look at the war and believe Bush's decision wasn't that bad. I believe that the
only people that have the right to complain are the one's that have been affected by it. George Bush isn't any worse then anyone in
Congress here except maybe John McCain. I'm just wondering why everyone attacks him so much when knowing they're probably gonna attack the
next president as well.
She spreads her silver wings to offer shade for my pale skin...
Sin Ogaris
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 01:51
I liked Clinton.
Chris
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 02:00
bush is a dumb fuck who can't even form coherent sentences, let alone run a country.
looking at bush's track record, how can there possibly be a worse president? that's all i'm going to say about that.
ta bi
Paige_x0x
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 02:08
George is a dumbass.
The night's as hot as hell. It's a lousy room in a lousy part of a lousy town - I'm staring at a goddess. She's telling me she
wants me. I'm not going to waste one more minute wondering how I've gotten this lucky. She smells like angels ought to smell, the perfect
woman... the Goddess. Goldie. She says her name is Goldie.
little_lady
Not quite as sad as the post count would suggest
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 02:13
Where's the one of him with the book upside down? Man, even if it's photoshopped..it's priceless.
you won't let me down...
nickelback_2202
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 02:19
Ah I know that he's a dumbass. His record sucks but slowly is getting better. I get to choose between two dumbasses though.
I don't see how John Kerry would be any better. His opinion changes with everything.
[Edited on 4-6-04 by nickelback_2202]
She spreads her silver wings to offer shade for my pale skin...
Reivax
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 06:35
I'm not going to get into this too much, but man, it's not just America and Iraq that are being/going to be affected by Bush's
decision(s) - the whole world is.
People are pissed about Bush's decision to send troops to Iraq, not because it directly effects us but the pretences of the war are flawed. It
was alleged that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. This has proven to be untrue. It was alledged that Iraq had ties to terrorism. This has
also proven untrue. In fact, it is speculated that America is now less safe due to it's increased presence in the Gulf.
Regardless of whether people were suffering under Saddam or not, it is still, I repeat, it is still illegal to invade a country. The Bush Junta is
guilty of war crimes. You can look this up under the Geneva convention (assessible from the UN website). Many articles of the Geneva convention have
been violated. Also, the unilateral action of America falls under America's own definition of terrorism.
Nickelback, I say this next point respectfully because I do not want it to be taken the wrong way. I like American and Americans are great people.
However, you must understand that your viewpoint is skewed simply by where you live and the societal perceptions you are exposed to everyday. I liken
living in America (and I have spent a great deal of time in America) to living in a room with one way mirrors for walls and roof and floor. People
can see in but Americans cannot see out. Go to any other country: Canada, any country in Europe and you will find that the way people perceive things
is not the same as in America.
To many non-Americans 'President' Bush (and I use quotes because the man was not elected - another problem with his administration) comes
across as a bumbling fool who is a poor public speaker and an elitist who only looks out for the rich.
A point on attacks. Democracy is about critism (a point many Bush supporters miss). In a democracy the people say who leads them. The President is
merely the highest level of civil servant.
John Kerry is a boring man who sometimes flip flops on issues, it's true. Think about it this way though. President Bush has spent many months
of his first term in office fighting things like same-sex marriage and abortion laws. Meanwhile, 40 million Americans are without adequate health
insurance; another close to 40 million live below the poverty line. These issues: Same sex-marriage and abortion are not pertinent to the masses.
Bush also has an awful track record on the environment. His Junta denies climate change science, he has put countless forests on the chopping block
with legislation, he wants to drill for oil on Alaskan preserves. In addition to this he has cut millions from libraries and has recently reduced
veterens benefits. Finally, in recent news, the Army has instituted program 'stop loss,' a program devised in partnership with the Bush
Junta. This is, in effect, a mini-draft. Those who would normally leave the Army now cannot do so because of potential man-power shortage.
If things keep going this way, the draft may indeed come back. Ask yourself Nickelback, would you be willing to die for a man who goes to war under
questionable pretences? Are you 18 or are you going to be 18 in the next 4.5 years? If so you could be drafted. Think about that long and hard when
you're voting (If you do).
John Kerry isn't a great candidate by any means, that is known. However, it is often said that the Republicans think the party should decide
for the people while the Democrates say that the people should decide for the party.
Either way, the American two party system is a circus. A third party is sorely needed.
One more thing, on the topic of candidates' opinions changing:
While John Kerry may flip flop it shouldn't be missed that Bush has done some grand flip flops in his term in office.
He promised to decrease the size of government. Instead under his watch the government and government agencies have grown to their largest size
ever.
Also, Bush promised to return more power to lower courts. However, he used the Supreme Court to stop the Florida recounts (A move deemed
unconstitutional by many). This is directly in contradiction to his campaign promise.
These are but a few facts against Bush. I bet I could drag up at least 5 more full pages of this forum filled with reasons not to vote for Bush.
Nickelback, if you can vote and are going for Bush, will you allow me to try and convince you to vote for another party? If you agree to keep an open
mind I believe I can present you with countless reasons not to vote for Bush in November.
Posts: 170
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 13:47
havent you heard of u.s. soldiers beating iraquis and killing them for suspicion of being hostile. Thinking of it makes me sick and Bush should be
arrested for it but since he's the president some poor soldier that was just following orders will get the blame for it.
also when Bush went into Iraq and got Saddam out, he could have left, but no. He went and secured their oil fields and meanwhile the people of Iraq
are doing miserable. i just think your being mislead by the media to make it seem like Bush is doing the right thing.
[Edited on 4-6-04 by Mat L]
Elisha Cuthbert owns you
Dagger Phillips
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 15:14
I disagree with the statement that Bush sending troops over doesn't affect us as Canadians. It does afect us!
Think about it, if some terrorist managed to set off a nuclear device in some place close to the US/Canadian border (let's say New York City or
Detroit) we would have to deal with nuclear fallout. CANADIANS would die for the cause of "liberating" Iraq.
Not to mention that politically Canada has no choice but to deal with the US. It has been said many times that Canada and the USA are
"friends" and I don't know about you guys but if I'm a terrorist I probably view Canada and the US as pretty much the same.
Remember the terrorist mentality is "If you're not for us, you're against us."
Which is also Bush's attitude. It's sad considering he is the leader of a country that brags about having more freedom than any other
country in the world. (free speech my ass... the FCCs loves censorship these days!) So the list of potential enemies has gotten longer in the last 4
years.. and if there was another war.. you know whos getting a call to go to war with them.. Canada.
So his decisions do affect us, or at the very least have the potential to affect us greatly.. which is all I need to not like Bush (the presedent).
www.bittercandi.com
Gilmour_93
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 20:17
Well regardless of whom is elected to be the next President of The United States, the same decision will be made. The government is all controlled by
the elite rich and they control our country. I had a legal document that showed how George Bush was clearly related to the Queen. Oh, guess who else
was on that list? John Kerry and Bill Clinton. Yup.
So vote, it really doesn't matter.
I hate myself and I want to die.
RobH
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posted on 2004-6-4 at 22:39
George Bush has no defense for the lies he told, and continues to tell. These aren't small lies, either. For example: "We know where the
weapons of mass destruction are." (By the way, this is a direct quote from Donald Rumsfeld I believe) No one with that kind of power should be
able to use that as an excuse to do something like invade a country, and then get away with it.
Is George Bush a good president? No. Would John Kerry be any good? Possibly not... Maybe the whole system should be scrapped.
www.sluggy.com
nickelback_2202
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posted on 2004-6-5 at 00:27
God Damn... I sat around for half an hour writing my opinion and it never did go through. I'll just try and do it later sometime.
She spreads her silver wings to offer shade for my pale skin...
jessica
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posted on 2004-6-5 at 02:42
jeff you are my favorite person ever. because after reading the first post i thought i'd have to write a huge amount to explain a lot of
things. but you saved me the time. thank you.
i can't even put into words how pissed off it makes me when people like george bush become leaders of a country. the man is ignorant and a
liar. he persues his own agenda without taking into consideration of other points of view. i have family in the U.S. and i have nothing against
americans. but if george bush gets another term i will have a huge amount of dread of the future of this world. a man like bush should not be the
most powerful man in the world. how can he be justified??
Adidas
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posted on 2004-6-5 at 05:22
i dun like bush cause the ignorant s.o.b. doesn't know how to tie his own shoe laces...i been talking about how much of a dumbass he before he
was ever elected. i was only 16 at the time so i couldnt vote myself, but this time its different.
"What are you doing?" >.>
Dagger Phillips
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posted on 2004-6-5 at 14:44
quotation:Originally posted by jessica
the man is ignorant and a liar. he persues his own agenda without taking into consideration of other points of view.
Sounds like most polititians to me.
www.bittercandi.com
Jeff K
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posted on 2004-6-5 at 16:24
Adidas is pissed! Great to see you're doing your part to get the criminal out of office.
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posted on 2004-8-9 at 14:59
The presidential election is coming up soon so I thought bring this topic back up. I had planned to reply a while ago but my post had never went
through.
I take back my comment though that the war doesn't affect all of us. It does one way or another but it simply hasn't all that much.
quotation:Originally posted by Jeff K
People are pissed about Bush's decision to send troops to Iraq, not because it directly effects us but the pretences of the war are flawed. It
was alleged that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. This has proven to be untrue. It was alledged that Iraq had ties to terrorism. This has
also proven untrue. In fact, it is speculated that America is now less safe due to it's increased presence in the Gulf.
I know that the government of the United States have given off many explinations as to why we went to war in Iraq. Some of them probably being false.
I didn't believe half of it anyways. I thought the war was going to be meaningless. We would never find Saddam, Iraq would never go for a
democracy, and other nations would dispise us. With how it's turned out, I was pretty much wrong. Saddam was captured... Iraq has a good chance
at democracy... and our relationship with other nations hasn't changed a whole lot since the war has begun. I don't believe that
we're more open for another attack though. As far as Al-Qaeda goes they've stated that Bush is a criminal and should not be relected.
We're reducing their power and chances to attack again. They're on the run constantly. I'm sure that they would love to have Bush
out of office.
quotation:Regardless of whether people were suffering under Saddam or not, it is still, I repeat, it is still illegal to invade a country. The Bush
Junta is guilty of war crimes. You can look this up under the Geneva convention (assessible from the UN website). Many articles of the Geneva
convention have been violated. Also, the unilateral action of America falls under America's own definition of terrorism.
War has been around for centuries. Genghis Khan had his troops cut off the heads of women. Rome would conquer other nations and inslave their
soldiers. We went into a nation that was controlled by a dictator. One that has killed his own people. The citizens of Iraq didn't have the
power to overthrow him. If we hadn't taken Saddam out then it would still be the same old Iraq. Over 1,000 American troops have died in Iraq
though. It's horrible no matter how many have died. We went to war and I don't think there was any other way we could have gotten Saddam
out of power. Wether it was illegal or not... I don't care. We know that Germany and France would have voted no to the war in Iraq. Knowing that
Iraq is in debt to them I could see why.
quotation: Nickelback, I say this next point respectfully because I do not want it to be taken the wrong way. I like American and Americans are great
people. However, you must understand that your viewpoint is skewed simply by where you live and the societal perceptions you are exposed to everyday.
I liken living in America (and I have spent a great deal of time in America) to living in a room with one way mirrors for walls and roof and floor.
People can see in but Americans cannot see out. Go to any other country: Canada, any country in Europe and you will find that the way people perceive
things is not the same as in America.
Your right. I can not see it from your view point. I can't see it from someone view in the U.K. The same goes for you. None of us know what
it's like to live in Isreal. None of us knew what it was like to live with Saddam as our dictator. I listen to their opinion's none the
less.
quotation: To many non-Americans 'President' Bush (and I use quotes because the man was not elected - another problem with his
administration) comes across as a bumbling fool who is a poor public speaker and an elitist who only looks out for the rich.
President Bush was elected though. He won the electorial votes. Which in my opinion are more important then the popular vote. The electorial votes
were simply created so each state had a say in who becomes President. Kansas is completly different from New York. One candiate might not reflect on
the interest of a certain state's interest. A lot of states don't vary on a whole lot but some do. The electorial votes allow each state
to be heard.
Then there's the problem with Florida. It was a mess. George Bush won by half a precentage point I believe. George Bush also won the same amount
in Wisconsin. Al Gore won by half a percentage point in New Mexico. No one seems to argue over that.
quotation: A point on attacks. Democracy is about critism (a point many Bush supporters miss). In a democracy the people say who leads them. The
President is merely the highest level of civil servant.
John Kerry is a boring man who sometimes flip flops on issues, it's true. Think about it this way though. President Bush has spent many months
of his first term in office fighting things like same-sex marriage and abortion laws. Meanwhile, 40 million Americans are without adequate health
insurance; another close to 40 million live below the poverty line. These issues: Same sex-marriage and abortion are not pertinent to the masses.
As far as I'm concerned abortion is a huge issue. Any idiot can realize that life doesn't necessarily begin at conception.
If a woman can feel the baby kicking then that's a pretty good sign. There's also new technology that allows you better pictures with a
sauna wave? in which you can see babies opening their eyes or moving around. This is probably the main reason why John Kerry doesn't get my
vote. He's a complete idiot to allow it to be legal. Taxes are going to be raised for certain citizens or lowered for others. Sex is short for
sexual reproduction. In our society though we believe it's just for fun. To allow people to kill their offspring because they didn't know
better is horrible. No other species goes around and has sex then kills all their offsprings. If we allow abortion to go on then it might end up
staying. That's more important then health care or jobs. Kind of like asking what if Rome never made Christianity the only religion allowed
under their nation. It might not even be around today.
quotation: Bush also has an awful track record on the environment. His Junta denies climate change science, he has put countless forests on the chopping
block with legislation, he wants to drill for oil on Alaskan preserves. In addition to this he has cut millions from libraries and has recently
reduced veterens benefits. Finally, in recent news, the Army has instituted program 'stop loss,' a program devised in partnership with
the Bush Junta. This is, in effect, a mini-draft. Those who would normally leave the Army now cannot do so because of potential man-power shortage.
George Bush's record on the economy is horrible. John Kerry's might be a bit better. It's not gonna be all that great though.
quotation:If things keep going this way, the draft may indeed come back. Ask yourself Nickelback, would you be willing to die for a man who goes to war
under questionable pretences? Are you 18 or are you going to be 18 in the next 4.5 years? If so you could be drafted. Think about that long and
hard when you're voting (If you do).
John Kerry isn't a great candidate by any means, that is known. However, it is often said that the Republicans think the party should decide
for the people while the Democrates say that the people should decide for the party.
Either way, the American two party system is a circus. A third party is sorely needed.
I'm not for the draft and I can't think of anyone that is. There's democrats in favor for the draft though. I don't believe
that it will come up anytime soon though. If a major war breaks out... it doesn't matter who's in office. The draft would come back. Which
is sad.
I've really gotten sick of listening to the democrats complain about George Bush. I hear tons of American citizens saying anybody is better then
Bush. Not even knowing who John Kerry is or what John Kerry will do for this country. John Kerry has also attacked Bush and Homeland Security for
bringing up information on terror threats. Claiming that they're a ploy and to boost interest for Bush. Even though John Kerry has called off
breifings to hear about these terror alerts from the White House.
Only having two major parties in American politics is horrible. They have to be completly different on certain issues to get the interest of voters.
John Kerry is against the war in Iraq because it was George Bush's decision. John Kerry isn't against the war because he possibly believes
it's wrong. He's against it because he's a democrat and the President in office is a republican. The main reason I'm voting
for Bush is because he has morals and sticks to them. Wether it's based on or religion or not. I'm not a religious person but I agree with
many of his views. I know what he's done or will do as President.
If the President does something I dislike or I don't agree with it might change my opinion. I'm open-minded and willing to listen to what
anybody has to say. I don't know if my vote will change or not. It's an important decision. I'd like to have the person that I
believe fits to be President elected. Who becomes President of the United States doesn't only affect me but it affects everyone.
She spreads her silver wings to offer shade for my pale skin...
nickelback_2202
Recognised Member
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posted on 2004-8-9 at 15:00
Sorry if there's something that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's 10 am over here and I'm a bit out of it.
[Edited on 9-8-04 by nickelback_2202]
She spreads her silver wings to offer shade for my pale skin...
Jeff K
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posted on 2004-8-9 at 16:59
Looks like we have the beginning of a good, constructive argument here.
quotation:I know that the government of the United States have given off many explinations as to why we went to war in Iraq. Some of them probably being
false. I didn't believe half of it anyways. I thought the war was going to be meaningless. We would never find Saddam, Iraq would never go for a
democracy, and other nations would dispise us. With how it's turned out, I was pretty much wrong. Saddam was captured... Iraq has a good chance
at democracy... and our relationship with other nations hasn't changed a whole lot since the war has begun. I don't believe that
we're more open for another attack though. As far as Al-Qaeda goes they've stated that Bush is a criminal and should not be relected.
We're reducing their power and chances to attack again. They're on the run constantly. I'm sure that they would love to have Bush
out of office.
I find you've contradicted yourself here. You say that you didn't believe half of the reasons the administration used for justifying war.
What does that really say about the powers in force when even those who lean toward supporting them don't really believe them. I also find it
a touch hypocritical on your part.
quotation:War has been around for centuries. Genghis Khan had his troops cut off the heads of women. Rome would conquer other nations and inslave their
soldiers. We went into a nation that was controlled by a dictator. One that has killed his own people. The citizens of Iraq didn't have the
power to overthrow him. If we hadn't taken Saddam out then it would still be the same old Iraq. Over 1,000 American troops have died in Iraq
though. It's horrible no matter how many have died. We went to war and I don't think there was any other way we could have gotten Saddam
out of power. Wether it was illegal or not... I don't care. We know that Germany and France would have voted no to the war in Iraq. Knowing that
Iraq is in debt to them I could see why.
The citizens of Iraq could have overthrown Saddam if they had wanted to. That is called a revolution. People do it when they don't want their
leadership anymore.
Comparing this situation to Genghis Kahn is ridiculous for a few reasons. Genghis Kahn was a war lord who lived many years ago. Times have changed
since then. America is supposed to set a moral example for the rest of the world, which means doing things by the book.
quotation:I can't see it from someone view in the U.K. The same goes for you. None of us know what it's like to live in Isreal. None of us
knew what it was like to live with Saddam as our dictator. I listen to their opinion's none the less.
The same doesn't go for me though. I've lived in America. I feel it is reasonable for me to say I have both points of view.
quotation:President Bush was elected though. He won the electorial votes. Which in my opinion are more important then the popular vote. The electorial
votes were simply created so each state had a say in who becomes President. Kansas is completly different from New York. One candiate might not
reflect on the interest of a certain state's interest. A lot of states don't vary on a whole lot but some do. The electorial votes allow
each state to be heard.
Once again, I will state; Bush was not elected. Yes, he won the electoral votes but only after using the supreme court to stop the Florida recounts.
Let's examine this a little further. During his campaign Bush promised to put more power back in the hands of the people through measures that
would be passed through congress, restricting some of the power that higher level courts have. This stopping of the Florida recounts (Made possible
in part by his brother governer Jeb Bush) was a direct breakage of a major campaign promise.
quotation:As far as I'm concerned abortion is a huge issue. Any idiot can realize that life doesn't necessarily begin at conception.
If a woman can feel the baby kicking then that's a pretty good sign. There's also new technology that allows you better pictures with a
sauna wave? in which you can see babies opening their eyes or moving around. This is probably the main reason why John Kerry doesn't get my
vote. He's a complete idiot to allow it to be legal. Taxes are going to be raised for certain citizens or lowered for others. Sex is short for
sexual reproduction. In our society though we believe it's just for fun. To allow people to kill their offspring because they didn't know
better is horrible. No other species goes around and has sex then kills all their offsprings. If we allow abortion to go on then it might end up
staying. That's more important then health care or jobs. Kind of like asking what if Rome never made Christianity the only religion allowed
under their nation. It might not even be around today.
Most of your points stand. I just wanted to say there are many animals who give birth then kill their offspring. The bald eagle is an example. The
smallest eaglet is almost always starved to death then thrown out of the nest.
You obviously have your opinions and you have reasons for believing what you do. I respect that. Just be prepared to live with the choices you make.
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Registered: 2003-5-5 Location: Markhamania Member is offline
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posted on 2004-8-11 at 01:00
props to Bill Clinton for being the only man in the White House who could get it up.
can I find my faults // leave them and start // to find myself?
armour_guitarist
Oh Dear
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Registered: 2003-9-10 Location: Brooklyn Member is offline
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posted on 2004-8-11 at 21:59
see Farenheit 9/11 if you havent already. it is brilliant.
i would also like to point out how much freedom George Bush has taken away from us (the people of the US) through the Patriot Act. it was an idea that
has been written up for quite a while, but as soon as 9/11 occured, Bush decided it was the perfect time to put it into effect. It gives the
government the power to arrest, and even imprison people without showing any evidence if they even suspect your association with terrorism, and they
do not even have to notify any family member. Imagine if your dad just never came back from work, and you would never know why. they can do that.
Some things take more than a lifetime.
armour_guitarist
Oh Dear
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Registered: 2003-9-10 Location: Brooklyn Member is offline
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posted on 2004-8-11 at 23:33
much like Bush, or should i say monkey boy?
PIS AND IAN... We are homosexual lovers
Some things take more than a lifetime.
Pure_Ibanez_Sound
Oh Dear
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